ORU to Southland a done deal

[jackmd]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

Per Sagarin:

Summit - #18
Southland - #29

According to MY perspective, that is not a lateral move.

Agree, as it pertain to men's BB it is a downward move based on Sagarin ratings. ORU's perspective includes many other factors. One of those is a sense that their opinion and interests have been given less weight in the new Summit league.

I'd argue that the shift towards 'Major DI' began as early as Arkansas joining the SEC and the addition of the SWC teams to the Big 8 to form the Big 12 with the more recent changes occurring when the ACC raided the Big East to establish a power FB conference to compete with the expanding SEC and Pac-10. That resulted in the Big East acquiring 4 C-USA teams including Louisville and UCINN. Utah jumped to the Pac-12 and now TCU and USF have now also joined 'Major DI conferences'. There is a great deal of conversation about more defection from 'mid-major' conferences as we type.

[jackmd]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

What schools have moved from 'D1 to Major D1' over the last decade?

I'm more concerned about the current decade.

[filbert]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

Well, the Southland Conference's web site just had ORU's logo on it, so we'll call it official now.

[zooropa]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

SD and ND are not big enough for 4 DI schools

SD + ND + MN + NE + IA = 11.661M

2 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 10 D1 schools

= 1 D1 school per 1.16M people.

As long as is only one D1 school in Minnesota, there's plenty of room.

[zooropa]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

One of those is a sense that their opinion and interests have been given less weight in the new Summit league.

Should SDSU apologize for that? What was ORU 'owed' over and above any other university in the Summit?

[joeybrownerHOF]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

Should SDSU apologize for that? What was ORU 'owed' over and above any other university in the Summit?

Not speaking for JackMD but I believe he would agree with your response and was his point.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

This would reduce the Summit to a 5 team league for baseball. Will this have any effect on post season eligibility such as the loss of an autobid? Is UND still looking for a landing spot for their baseball program?

I'm not sure where a 5-team league is coming from. When SUU leaves next year, along with ORU, and UNO comes into the Summit with a baseball program, we will be at six baseball teams in the conference.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

SD + ND + MN + NE + IA = 11.661M

2 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 10 D1 schools

= 1 D1 school per 1.16M people.

As long as is only one D1 school in Minnesota, there's plenty of room.

There's 3 in Nebraska with Creighton, UNO and UNL.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

In short, I think losing ORU to the Southland is bad thing for the Summit and for SDSU. Adding USD and UNO no doubt contributed to their departure. I've said it before and I still believe that SD and ND are not big enough for 4 DI schools. At least not for the quality athletic programs I want to see at SDSU.

Completely agree on this. YF knows this is why I wish USD would have stayed D-II.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

I agree with almost everything you stated. I have discussed the same thing with many colleagues, before any talk of a move in the 90's through today, and our thoughts as stated above and stated in another post, are aligned. This shift is really no different than when the NCAA removed the college and university divisions 1950's?. It is all about the power schools wanting more power. My only question, and no smack from others, is why do you feel ND and SD can't support 4 DI schools? talent base, declining population of students, corporate money, etc? Other than the obvious, what is your desire for the quality athletic programs you want to see?

Personally, if ND and SD had one D-1 school in each state, you'd see a major increase in athletics. Both schools would be perfect for the Missouri Valley and would most likely have a strong basketball presence. There are a lot of good players that leave SD to play at other schools. All programs would do better on a national level if there was 1 school in each state. I've said this before. JackMD and I agree on a lot of the same principles here.

[yotefan90]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

ORU didn't leave the Summit for a stronger conference, I agree. I believe they left for a number of reasons and most of them are less than noble. That said, I think the addition of UNO and USD as well as the opportunity provided by the WAC raid resulted in the final decision to move, lateral or downward depends on your perspective.

Honest question here. Suppose USD took Big Sky option and UNO didn't move up. SUU and Centenary are both gone. Does ORU stay with a 8 team Summit that is looking for new members to solidify their numbers, or would they have taken a Southland option if it was given to them and then put the Summit at 7? What if scenarios can go thousands of ways, but I think they were gone with or without UNO and USD when a Southland option presents itself. The Summit, being the launch point for many D-1 newcomers that it is, may have been able to save them by going after the same new potential members the Southland is considering (a few Southern faith based schools that I don't want to look up now), but would that have made things any better for the XDSU's?

[joeboo22]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

Honest question here. Suppose USD took Big Sky option and UNO didn't move up. SUU and Centenary are both gone. Does ORU stay with a 8 team Summit that is looking for new members to solidify their numbers, or would they have taken a Southland option if it was given to them and then put the Summit at 7? What if scenarios can go thousands of ways, but I think they were gone with or without UNO and USD when a Southland option presents itself. The Summit, being the launch point for many D-1 newcomers that it is, may have been able to save them by going after the same new potential members the Southland is considering (a few Southern faith based schools that I don't want to look up now), but would that have made things any better for the XDSU's?

IDK, I suppose no one knows, I doubt people in the ORU athletic department know for sure. I do think that they were against USD and UNO. That is just my feeling. I don't think it was any 1 issue, I think it was a combination of numerous things and they are gone. I don't blame USD and UNO and believe that they were smart gets, but I think they were upset that a Central Arkansas or a U of Arkansas Little Rock, or one of the Texas schools were not given serious looks yet USD and UNO were accepted right away.

[Nidaros]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

My speculation is travel costs and 25 below weather in the Dakotas. I think they got a workable arrangement and I wish ORU good luck.

[FargoBison]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

I'm not sure I follow the comments about ORU leaving due to UNO and USD being added. Outside of UMKC, UNO would be the closest league member to ORU and USD is pretty much just as close to ORU as WIU is.

What ORU wanted was a southern presence and lower travel costs, the SLC gives them that. Plus they will be the king of that conference, they won't have to contend with any school with a real sizable passionate fanbase like the Dakota schools in that league.

Now the task is on Douple to find a solid 10th member. There are some possibilities out there but he'll need to sell them on the Summit, the fact that league features some great schools and decent footprint should give him so nice ammo to use.

[JackJD]

Re: ORU to Southland a done deal

Which schools would be interested in the Summit League? Which one would be the best addition?