I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

[Coyote_Fan]

So Chad Lavin is leaving. You can take one position or another but you can't have it both ways. What I mean is that if you are an anti Lavin person and don't think he is a good coach this isn't a good day for a Coyote hater. If you think he is a good coach then this is a good day for a Coyote hater. If you love Chad (that would be a rarity around here) than you are obviously disappointed. What is a SDSU fan to do now. One of your favorite whipping boys is gone. One less thing to be critical of your friendly neighbor down south.

Personally I am slightly on the side of the fence of being glad he is walking out the door. One has to wonder if this was 100% voluntary of if there was some other kind of an influence in play. USD will make a good oppurtunity for a coach looking for a challenge and looking at moving up to D1 at the same time. The program isn't horrible but lets face it their is alot of pressure to somewhat live up to what SDSU is doing to the north. USD will not likely get to SDSU's level in womens hoops any time soon.

Onto football. I have made the argument in the past and obviously it remains the same today. There is very little difference between D1 FCS and much of D2 football. D2 has proven time and time again in the D1 teams own backyard that they match up very evenly in many cases.

USD has regressed a bit in football this year. Most said losing Logan was going to be the downfall of USD football. I did not agree that losing Logan would be a major factor but instead it would be the defense. I was right on with that one. It's terrible.

I think USD and SDSU were basically equal over the past couple of years but now I believe that SDSU is slightly ahead. Not because they are D1 but because USD has gotten a bit worse over the off season. The defense is going to hold USD back all year.

Mens basketball, sorry guys but I am talking the Yotes here. They have D1 talent on their roster and would take the SDSU men 7 out of every 10 games. They bring back the entire team.

What is the deal with the TV this year. USD is having about 4 or 5 games on TV and SDSU many fewer than that. Not good for a D1 vs a D2. It won't be long now and USD will be making the jump.

Rumors of USD to the Gateway. Ya can't put too much stock into them but assuming they are false is probably not the best way to go either. Obviously UND and USD both make tons of sense for the Gateway provided that the room is available. If I were in a conference I would want as many good schools as possible and would find a way to make room even if it meant splitting into divisions. USD and UND would help futher the notion of the Gateway being the strongest D1 FCS conference. As far as the Summit League only the most anti USD person would think that having both USD and UND in would be a bad idea.

[EQguy]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

Ok, I'll jump in first here.

Lavin is what Lavin is...take it or leave it. What will be telling is who you hire and their background. That will be the first tell into how USD is handling the move.

You also can't have it both ways with football. If you are comparing three games between DII and FCS schools then you have to take the results of the UCA game as a measure of USD and SDSU. Your comparison would also ahow that there is no difference between FBS and FCS because Appalachian State beat Michigan and UNI beat Iowa State. USD has been good the past few years. They are probably also pretty good this year. But from experience I can tell you that SDSU's team is light years different than the team that played in the Dome last. Is one better than the other? We'll never truly know until they play again (unless you want to compare last year's UCA scores).

As far as mens BBall goes - I challenge you to watch a game this year and tell me what you are telling me. SDSU now has D-I talent, there is former D-I talent on USD's team. They are no longer there for a reason.

The reason SDSU is not on TV this year may be because of some bravado on our leadership's part and that is not all bad. Basically, I believe, they are looking for a D-I deal and are not willing to accept what has been ok in the past. USD did and good for them. Nothing more nothing less.

As far as the Gateway and Summit goes I do think there are many SDSU fans that would like to see USD sweat it out a bit like we had to. In the end if you do get in to those conferences that will be fine. What bothers me mostly is this false bravado that you have that you just belong there and they are dying to have you in. If it is the right deal at the right time then fine, you'll be in the conference again. But fact of the matter is that SDSU doesn't need you in the conference. My guess is that if things bounce right we will break the attendance record at Coughlin this year. Attendance has already been better than the old days for football and I think basketball will end up with very good attendence this year also. Say what you want about the conference schedule not being exciting but the only draw in the NCC was USD, Augie and maybe one other team that was near the top of the conference otherwise attendance wasn't much better than it was over the last few years.

[JackJD]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

Coyote Fan: I usually don't have much to say in the smack threads...as a Moderator, I'm a little like the assistant principal at the middle school and one of my duties is to visit this hallway from time-to-time and if anybody is really out of line, give them detention.

So, I find myself reading your essay. (By the way, welcome back to this board.) I'll comment on only your closing line: "As far as the Summit League only the most anti USD person would think that having both USD and UND in would be a bad idea."

I do not consider myself an "anti-USD person". I have a degree from USD and I had a good experience at USD. Make no mistake: I'm a Jackrabbit but I'm a Jackrabbit because of my connection with the school and everything it continues to do for this State and its students. I'm not a Jackrabbit because I'm anti- some other school.

Understand, Coyote Fan? If you don't, please re-read that last paragraph before moving to the following paragraph.

I'm convinced that having USD in the Summit League is a bad idea. I've said on other threads that it's my wish USD was in a different conference. I don't say that out of ill-will for USD. I know that there will be a day when the two schools play in basketball and football but I'd prefer they remain separated. In recent years the so-called 'rivalry' went beyond ugly at times. I don't think I'll ever forget watching Austin Hanson getting mugged -- intentionally injured -- at the Dakota Dome several years ago. How many games did he miss after that? Yeah, I know, an SDSU player responded with a payback elbow to Mueller's nose but, we didn't pick that fight -- USD's out-of-control guard who couldn't keep up with SDSU's Hanson picked that fight.

There was a time when the act of obviously cutting a player's legs out from under him for no reason other than to hurt him would have resulted in a rejection from the game -- the offending player's coach would have benched the guy.

USD v SDSU was out of control and getting worse. And I'm convinced the ugliness will return. The break of the last few years have been good. I hope the break continues as long as possible. Eventually when football and basketball games resume, I hope they are infrequent and 'out of conference'.

So, from a guy who likes to see USD beat its opponents: having USD in the Summit League is, in my opinion, a very bad idea. [And as far as UND is concerned, I yield to the judgment of the Bison.]

[NorCalJack]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

OK, I will throw my hat into the ring.

I will first comment about Lavin. I don't think you have to pick sides on this issue. Lavin is a Lame Duck coach and that is a fact. It has to be very difficult recruiting players when the players know that Lavin will not be there when they attend USD. Even worse, recruits don't know who the coach will be. So the announcement of Lavin retiring after this year is not good news for USD, period.

The last point I want to comment on is the Gateway rumor. It is my understand that the commissioner of the Gateway stated that SDSU and NDSU had to find a conference home for their other sports before they would be considered for the Gateway. I'm sure that the same rule would apply to USD. The Gateway will not offer any membership to an independent. I also heard that some members did not want to include NDSU for membership because of the distance from the other schools and they only wanted to add SDSU. SDSU had stated prior to the meetings that SDSU and NDSU were partners and that they had to accept both or reject both. Apparently there was strong support for a 8 team league, but because SDSU would not join without NDSU they had to expand to 9 teams. That means the Gateway has one too many teams already, so if a team from the Gateway were to move up to the FBS, the league would be OK with an 8 team league. That would mean no expansion unless two teams leave. The odds of one team leaving are much higher than two teams leaving. Therefore USD's inclusion in the Gateway is far from a slam dunk. Good luck to you however.

Go State!!!

[2002jack]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

I don't know why I am responding to this.

I don't see the purspose of adding the UXD's into the Gateway. XDSU's were added to solidify the conference and keep the automatic qualifier. When Western Kentucky left, I think many members were concerned about what would happen if Indiana State and/or Missouri State dropped football. And/Or if Youngstown State moved up to FBS.

As for the Summit. I am all for the UXD's becoming members.

[JimmyJack]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

Re: football.

You keep saying things like "there is very little difference between D1 FCS and much of D2 football." It's a laughable statement that I'm sure you're basing on UND's defeat of Southern Utah (one of the worst FCS programs) and on Western Washington's stunner over UC Davis.

I would just say that those two games are the exceptions that prove the rule. FCS teams are deeper (63 scholarships vs. 36). FCS teams are more athletic. FCS teams have more explosive skill players. For those two D2 wins, I suppose I could cite about 100 D2 losses to FCS teams, but it's no use even trying to reason with you.

I hope you'll come back after USD's game at McNeese having learned something.

By the way, none of this reflects badly on USD's program. In fact, I would agree that USD is in good shape to move up to FCS. The Coyotes have good team speed (a requirement in FCS) and good skill players (Noah Shepard is a very good QB).

But I'll take 63 fast, athletic players against 36 (or fewer) every time. The team I saw SDSU take to the fourth quarter on the road last week (I was in Youngstown) would beat Grand Valley State by about 40 points.

[Nidaros]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

Who is Chad Lavin?? Its been so long I have forgetten.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

Re: football.

You keep saying things like "there is very little difference between D1 FCS and much of D2 football." It's a laughable statement that I'm sure you're basing on UND's defeat of Southern Utah (one of the worst FCS programs) and on Western Washington's stunner over UC Davis.

I would just say that those two games are the exceptions that prove the rule. FCS teams are deeper (63 scholarships vs. 36). FCS teams are more athletic. FCS teams have more explosive skill players. For those two D2 wins, I suppose I could cite about 100 D2 losses to FCS teams, but it's no use even trying to reason with you.

I hope you'll come back after USD's game at McNeese having learned something.

By the way, none of this reflects badly on USD's program. In fact, I would agree that USD is in good shape to move up to FCS. The Coyotes have good team speed (a requirement in FCS) and good skill players (Noah Shepard is a very good QB).

But I'll take 63 fast, athletic players against 36 (or fewer) every time. The team I saw SDSU take to the fourth quarter on the road last week (I was in Youngstown) would beat Grand Valley State by about 40 points.

I can gaurantee you that Youngstown would not take Grand Valley by about 40 points. That game is a near tossup. If UND is beating UNI on the road and losing to Grand Valley on the road by a minumum of 2 touchdowns I think it is fair to say that Grand Valley would more than hold their own against the Pens. Sorry guys but Grand Valley is 10-14 points better than SDSU.

[Nidaros]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

I can gaurantee you that Youngstown would not take Grand Valley by about 40 points. That game is a near tossup. If UND is beating UNI on the road and losing to Grand Valley on the road by a minumum of 2 touchdowns I think it is fair to say that Grand Valley would more than hold their own against the Pens. Sorry guys but Grand Valley is 10-14 points better than SDSU.

Yes just like last year USD was 14 pts better than Central Arkansas. LOL I dont see Grand Valley planning any D1FCS opponents so how would we know. Do we take your word for it? We played GV before and I believe we are 2-0 against them. Its a while ago, but they have not improved that much that they could rip off D1FCS teams right and left. I myself would rather see GVSU on our schedule than I would USD. We would still get as good of crowd as we would with the Dakota Dumpsters(usd).

[jacksfaninne]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

I can gaurantee you that Youngstown would not take Grand Valley by about 40 points.

You can't guarantee anything. They aren't on each others' schedules.

Sorry guys but Grand Valley is 10-14 points better than SDSU.

What a load. You haven't seen either team play this year. You haven't even seen an FCS game. I say the Vermillion Jr. High "B" team (even with you at QB) could hang 30 points on your mangy yotes. And my statement is just as valid.

[juice]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

OK, I will throw my hat into the ring.

I will first comment about Lavin. I don't think you have to pick sides on this issue. Lavin is a Lame Duck coach and that is a fact. It has to be very difficult recruiting players when the players know that Lavin will not be there when they attend USD. Even worse, recruits don't know who the coach will be. So the announcement of Lavin retiring after this year is not good news for USD, period.

!!!

You might be right about the announcement of Lavin retiring hurting recruiting. Lavin didn't really want to announce his retirement, because he doesn't really like to do things that draw attention to himself. It was USD's athletic dept. that made the announcement. It did hurt their chances to get Jill Young. She was ready to come to USD, and Lavin said we would love to have you, but I don't want you to make your decision based on who the coach is, because I won't be here next year. Jill had already lost the coach that had recruited her to Creighton and she didn't want to get into another situation where she didn't know who she would be playing for. Lavin has always been very upfront and honest with his players and recruits and that will hurt recruiting sometimes.
I was kind of surprised that SDSU offered Jill a scholarship. Listening to AJ talk to people at a summer tournament down in Kearney, NE this summer you would have thought he was really relieved not to have gotten Jill in the first place. Obviously he must not have felt that way or he wouldn't have offered her.

As for football, obviously I-AA as a whole is going to be better than DII as a whole, when your talking 63 scholarships compared to 36. However, the difference isn't huge, and teams like Grand Valley would beat the majority of teams in I-AA. I'm not sure one way or another who would win between USD and SDSU in football. I would venture to guess the last several years each team would win on their own field. It's certainly not as easy as comparing scores from the UCA game. Not because I don't think you can tell anything by comparing scores, but because SDSU hosted UCA and USD played them on the road. While USD has been undefeated at home under ED, we are only a .500 team on the road. USD won't take that next step until they can beat a really good team on the road. They did win their first round play off game last year on the road, but that's their only good road victory the last several years. I believe we lost to the last place team in the conference last year on the road, so the fact that UCA beat us on their homefield didn't impress me that much.

As far as conferences--USD is far from a lock to get into the Summit or the Gateway. In fact, I don't even think it looks good. The conference prospects for all sports looks bleak, and that's a scary thing. There is nothing exciting about being a DI independent.

Sorry for the post being all over the place.

[JimmyJack]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

I can gaurantee you that Youngstown would not take Grand Valley by about 40 points. That game is a near tossup. If UND is beating UNI on the road and losing to Grand Valley on the road by a minumum of 2 touchdowns I think it is fair to say that Grand Valley would more than hold their own against the Pens. Sorry guys but Grand Valley is 10-14 points better than SDSU.

I give up. You're absolutely right. D2 is by far a better brand of football than FCS. National FCS powers like YSU and App State wouldn't stand a chance in the NCC against the likes of USD, UND, and Augie. I think Dr. Oien should reconvene his brain trust and plot a reclassification down to D2.

We'll talk after Sept. 29 when USD plays McNeese State. Of course that won't count because it's a road game and you can't draw any conclusions about a team from a road game. We all know that. I don't even know why road games count.

[boxerboy]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

Hey Coyotee fan, I happen to live in W. Michigan and I've forgotten more about Grand Valley football than you'll ever know. Yes GVSU has a nice team as they showed you guys last fall. They are however not world beaters. I know many GVSU grads and I have several friends who played football for them and we have discussed GVSU going Div. I and none think it will happen because they can not compete (Grand Valley has over 20,000 undergrads). There is no way Grand Valley goes into the big house in Ann Arbor and does what App. State did to Michigan. I am not saying the Jacks are that good either but to claim that we couldn't keep up with GVSU is a bunch of Coyotee crap.
I remember State coming to Allendale, Mi. approximately 10 years ago and running a pretty good GVSU Laker team off the field. Is GVSU better now? Certainly, and so are the Jacks. There is only one South Dakota University that can only stay within 10-14 points of the Lakers and you guys proved that last fall.
I believe a decent second measurement of a team is how many legitimate pro prospects they have. GVSU usually has 1 or 2 which I believe to be quite similiar to the Jackrabbits.

[Drake]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

I don't think I'll ever forget watching Austin Hanson getting mugged -- intentionally injured -- at the Dakota Dome several years ago. How many games did he miss after that? Yeah, I know, an SDSU player responded with a payback elbow to Mueller's nose but, we didn't pick that fight -- USD's out-of-control guard who couldn't keep up with SDSU's Hanson picked that fight. ]

I recall a couple of years later in the Dome when an SDSU guard bit the USD out-of-control guard on the leg during a pile-up early in the game.

Guess the SDSU guard picked that fight.

[filbert]

Re: I'm Back After a Lengthy Hiatus

I recall a couple of years later in the Dome when an SDSU guard bit the USD out-of-control guard on the leg during a pile-up early in the game.

Guess the SDSU guard picked that fight.

More evidence in support of not playing them any time soon.

"If you can't play nice, don't play at all . . . "