UND Moving Up?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Agree on all points SDSUFan. I think some of that hatred Bison fans have for UND is clouding their judgement.

[filbert]

Re: UND Moving Up?

The withering ill-will with which Sioux and Bison fans regard each other is truly a wonder to behold.

Horrifying at times, but a wonder.

[NorCalJack]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Here is an article from Grand Forks updating their study on moving to D-1.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/14062387.htm

It sounds like they are have difficulty making their budget supporting D-2 sports. I also thought the following quote was of interest.

He said when North Dakota State in Fargo was mulling a move to Division I, that school said it, too, would fill its sports rosters with athletes from far-flung states. However, in nine instances where UND and NDSU soon competed head to head for regional recruits, NDSU got every one of them.
"The school that had to go away to get athletes was us," Bollinger said.

I thought I heard some smack from our friends down south that SDSU was going to have difficulty recruiting local players for D-1 since we were not eligible for a conference or national championship. Guess they were wrong. I wonder what our record is in competing head-to-head with USD or UNO for recruits. I'm sure that USD did land some recuits that SDSU had "interest" in, but probably not serious enough to actually offer a scholarship.

I'm still think UND will move up, but this article does not give them a ringing endorsement do to a lack of funding.

Go State!!! ;D ;D ;D

[bisonbacker]

Re: UND Moving Up?

I agree with some of the things posted on this thread but as far as a guaranteed move up for und I'm not banking on it. First of all fundraising or the $$$ required not only to make the move up but to sustain it is going to be a huge problem for them as is apparent in the article in the Grand Forks Paper. Many on this thread have not taken into account that neither NDSU or SDSU had the problem of Hockey and the Financial impact it has on und. They are funding womens hockey which is a huge money drain. With title nine issues and the financial issues they are dealing with now that problem is only going to become bigger. Now I for one don't mind saying that I despise most of those bastards for what they did during our move up and all thats been said over the last couple of years. They are nothing but a bunch of leeches on the backside of NDSU and SDSU. I would have had alot more respect for them if they had either moved up when we did or came out and simply said were not ready but we will do what we can to not make the move difficult for both SU's. Instead they refused to schedule us just to try to make things difficult and then have the balls to say it was our fault the games ended. As far as ever playing them again I think many on this board underestimate the contempt ( I could easily use the word hatred) that many have for them because of what they did. I wouldn't go to one game scheduled with them if it ever happens again and I hope that they either stay where they are in DII which I think is where they belong given the financial situation they are in or if they ever move up we are already in a conference and they can sit out as an independant like we did. Why the hell should we help them after everything they did or why should they benefit from our hard work? I say to hell with them.

[thebluehatman]

Re: UND Moving Up?

i didn't know they had much hockey in Arkansas and Dallas.

I dont know anything about this but alumni might be able to answer this one for me.

Bollinger said that, as the study moves forward, it would be valuable to get data on changes in alumni giving from schools in the region that already have jumped to Division I, such as NDSU, University of Northern Colorado and South Dakota State."I'd like to know: Has their giving increased for athletics after a move up?" Bollinger said.
Has Our Alumni giving changed in the past 3 years at all??

[thebluehatman]

Re: UND Moving Up?

As far as UND and USD go. I miss them all but their stubborn asses decided to cut ties with us at least Augie had some courtesy to schedule us one last time. USD's snob like response to us says they are proud of where they are at, which i have no idea that is besides a financial mess in the Athletic Department Screw the U's

[JBB123]

Re: UND Moving Up?

five members is kind of small but adding another Dakota school might not be to the liking of the West Coast schools.  its just like adding a home/home but Im sure they can all make those arrangements without traveling to Grand Forks.  Und faces the location issue and they face it alone.  As far as BB goes the situation looks even bleaker with the UBC.  Those southern schools arent going to add another Dakota school.  They hardly joined as is.
 
Und is going to be available to schedule anyway so why lock into a home/home series with a remote opponent?  They are looking like a home game to me for the first couple of yrs, then maybe some conference consideration, but until then they have all the problems NDSU or SDSU would have had alone.

[filbert]

Re: UND Moving Up?

i didn't know they had much hockey in Arkansas and Dallas.

I dont know anything about this but alumni might be able to answer this one for me.

Bollinger said that, as the study moves forward, it would be valuable to get data on changes in alumni giving from schools in the region that already have jumped to Division I, such as NDSU, University of Northern Colorado and South Dakota State."I'd like to know: Has their giving increased for athletics after a move up?" Bollinger said.
Has Our Alumni giving changed in the past 3 years at all??

This SDSU alumni's giving has gone up a LOT.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND Moving Up?

This SDSU alumni's giving has gone up a LOT.

Filbert I think you are right. One way of getting an approximate of total giving is to count names in the back of the program for each level of giving. I believe a AD Director classification is $5,000 and if you mulitply the number of names listed times the level of giving you do get some idea of what the total Jackrabbit club donations are for the year. If you are a pack rat like me and have saved programs from 5 years back and older you could then repeat the same process for that given year in order to see what the totals are and how they compare your current count. I think you would find a significant increase.

Also the number of acorn endowments and perpetual scholarships represent a cummulative amount of donations, over several years, so to quanitify them you really need the details which I think are still published by the foundation. The numbers in these categories are probably up too.

We got a number of small generous donors to keep everything going and this is probably were the growth is since making the D1 plunge.

If UND goes to a lot trouble to find this information, I think they will end up going D1. They shot their wad with Ralph Englestad in terms of big donors, I really dont know who else among the UND alums will be that generous.  It nice to have big generous donors, but I think too, you have to watch for the attached strings that are part of the big gift. (I.e. The politically correct or is it incorrect logo, You be the judge.)

The part about the article that is troubling to me is the balancing budget details, and the fact that one of the committee guys is big on cutting sports.  That could really back fire for them.  This has been discussed on other threads, and what is surprising is the intangibles attached to any given sport, that do not appear until the sport is cut. Also it could mean extra costs instead of cost savings.

[JackJD]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Now I for one don't mind saying that I despise most of those bastards for what they did during our move up and all thats been said over the last couple of years....As far as ever playing them again I think many on this board underestimate the contempt ( I could easily use the word hatred) that many have for them because of what they did.  I wouldn't go to one game scheduled with them if it ever happens again and I hope that they either stay where they are in DII which I think is where they belong given the financial situation they are in or if they ever move up we are already in a conference and they can sit out as an independant like we did.  Why the hell should we help them after everything they did or why should they benefit from our hard work?  I say to hell with them.  

Bisonbacker:  You leave no room for misunderstanding!  I have come to realize that the nasty side of the rivalry between NDSU and UND, compared to SDSU and USD, is about five times worse!  As an outsider to the rivalry up north, I find it entertaining but I'm clearly on the side of NDSU and I think I can feel a little of their glee on how UNDII seems to be suffering.  

USD was nasty about SDSU's move but not nearly as bad as UND was about NDSU's.  And, I think USD quieted down much more quickly.  

The flagship State U's would have to carefully consider whether getting into a conference with UNDII was advisable since UNDII would be 3 or 4 years behind the SU's on the eligibility trail etc.  And let's face it, the SU's ought to take advantage as long as they can of being the only DI institutions in their respective states.  I think the SU's tried to get UND and USD to consider making the move at the same time and the U's laughed in our faces.

All in all, its great entertainment.

[ndsubison]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Hello Jacks--there is indeed quite a bit of hatred between NDSU & und (especially since our DI move).  They did refuse to schedule us during our first transitional year for the sheer sake of making things as miserable as possible for the Bison.  They then turned and blamed SU for "killing the rivalry", etc etc.  They even held a press conference with that blowhard Roger Thomas (which rock is he under these days, anyway) negating all the reasons for SU to go DI and he was quite catty about it, to say the least.  und fans flooded our board with comments of how we'd languish in DI independent obscurity and how we were going to get our asses kicked every night out.  Since then, they've ridiculed DI-AA football, told us we're not a "real DI school", and many other insults.  NDSU and SDSU and also Davis have all had some initial success and things seem to only be getting better for all of us.  Low and behold, it is now a hot topic amongst und supporters to go DI.  Now it's the cool thing to do and afterall, according to them, it's where they always belonged in the first place.  They've even had radio announcers and sportswriters from the GF Herald proclaiming their FB team could win a NC practically overnight.  I have even read posts on bisonville.com that they are certain they'll follow us straight into a conference once they declare DI intent.  On top of that, they referenced our respective universities' agricultural backgrounds to the effect that "those stupid farmers plowed the road so we can drive right on in and dominate them once again".  This shows just how assinine and hypocritical that whole bunch is.  Be glad that they don't come polluting your board.  Maverick smackers have nothing on these @ssholes.  I for one do not care if NDSU ever plays them again because simply listening to their garbage boils the blood these days.  I hope they stay in DII but if they move up I hope and pray that we are in a conference that has no more room to add them and that they languish for years, drain their athletic budgets, wash out their teams and ultimately fail. Yeah, it's that intense.

GO BISON
GO JACKS

[JBB123]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Reviewing past history, even though they would appear to be a peer institution, they dont behave like one.  If NDSU has the deciding vote they might not have an easy time of it.   In our past relationships we have had to deal with a lot of underhanded and overt aggressive behavior designed with ill will toward NDSU.  This has to be considered in our decision to become involved with them again.  

[Siouxpreme]

Re: UND Moving Up?

I know you SDSU guys are open-minded enough for a UND guy to post on this topic.  

First of all, most of the hate in the UND-NDSU relationship is coming from NDSU.  You talk to an average person on the UND campus or a Sioux fan – there isn’t that much discussion or concern about NDSU.  Look at the Sioux board – there’s only a few Sioux fans that even make reference to the bison.  If there is a team that Sioux fans love to hate, it is the gophers and their hockey team.  Bison fans hate that they are not the focus of a rivalry.  Bison fans hate Grand Forks and everything there, because they know that bison fans are as numerous as hen’s teeth there.  Sioux fans love Fargo.  And why not, there are so many Sioux fans there!  Seems like a few thousand come up from Fargo for every Sioux hockey game, many of them bison fans otherwise.

Keep in mind that NDSU has attempted to start DI hockey for a number of years.  When they couldn’t get Fargo taxpayers to build them an arena, they switched tactics and decided to go DI in the other sports.  Then they attempted to dictate to UND that it needed to move up at the same time.

There are a number of reasons why UND couldn’t go DI when NDSU did- just talk to Sioux boosters in Grand Forks.   The business people in Grand Forks had too many question marks.  The air base was threatened with closure – it isn’t now.  (Could you guys have imagined what would have happened to Rapid City if Ellsworth closed ?  Same issue with Grand Forks.)  The assessment taxes for a new dik e in Grand Forks made everyone in the city cringe – thousands for an average house and ten of thousands for some businesses - no one at that time was going to voluntarily make more donations to UND athletics until those extra taxes were paid.  Those issues are gone now and were correctly a higher priority than any DI move.  Reasonable people will agree with that.  Unfortunately, some NDSU fans are callous enough to not even recognize those issues.

NDSU fans seem to think that everything UND should do should be for NDSU’s convenience.  If we would have played NDSU in the first year of their transition, it could have screwed us out of the playoffs and a national championship.  Did they care about that?  No.  Now, with the rule changes in DII where playing them wouldn’t hurt us so bad, they refuse to play us, even though we both have the same open dates.  Hypocritical on their part?  Absolutely.

[Siouxpreme]

Re: UND Moving Up?

As an example of a reasonable Bison fan, take a look at this.

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index....ry150886<br />

Bison fans that hate hockey are the ones that hate anything about the Sioux.  They especially hate that there are defectors among their bison ranks - it grates at them like everything.  The Bison fans who also like hockey (unless they also like the gophers) generally are not so spiteful toward UND.

[bisonbacker]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Sewage Supreme you really have just shown how ignorant you are.  You can make up all the Bull$hit stories you want but it doesn't change the facts.  As far as und supporters in Fargo what a joke.  The few that are here had to move here becuase they couldn't find a job in Grand Forks.  You obviously have some serious DI envy as you seem to post on both NDSU and SDSU's sites.  For someone who is not concerened with NDSU and SDSU you seem to spend a lot of time trolling these sites.  Why don't you go to a DII site like SCSU or UMD's or stay on your own.  These boards are for discussing DI athletics, something you wouldn't know anything about.