UND Moving Up?

[mitchell]

Here's an article discussing UND's possible move to DI.

http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=76516

[sdman]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Great article. The 3 ncc schools (UNC, SDSU, and NDSU) that have studied moving up all moved on. I predict that UND will make the move in the next 2 years. At least that will get us back to six fb conference members since I suspect they will want to join our conf. What they will do for the other sports is anybody's guess. They already have great facilities for d2 - no d2 school is spending another 35 million on facilities to stay in d2. Seems like overkill to me. 2 years max. and they are gone.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND Moving Up?

There are a few comments to be made about this article and the person who wrote it.

First the article was well written. It is as best I can tell very accurate.

It seems kind of unusual for UND to announce a fund drive for 35 million, and not make the move. It appears there has been a conclusion to make the move, but I could be wrong. The UND committee has that task of gathering information for the President to make his decision.

UND current president, Kupachella was very close to the president at SEMO, South East Missouri State University, when they made the move to D1. I am not sure what his title was but was a adminstration VP.
Apparently that move was not a smooth one and he came to Grand Forks with the notion that UND would never make that move. The UND alums appear to have different ideas. So things are at UND are not the same today as when Kupachella was install as the president.

The writer is someone who frequents our board here and occasionally posts. Kent Schmidt has been a great fan for years and was a regional writer over at D2football.com. He has ties to NDSU and a loyal alum. I am amazed Kent kept for the most part his loyalities to himself and did not let that distort his article that he wrote for D1AA org website. I would say great job Kent.
It may not include so much new information, but it helps but the UND situation into perspective at this point in time.

As far as UND moving up and affecting SDSU, I dont think it will make a great deal of difference, in fact it may help us some. Whether that keeps out SDSU out of membership in a conference, I really not want to make a projection. It may not be problem.

We know how tough its been these past two years some good and some bad, but for certain, SDSU is at least two years ahead in the reclassification process.

I think the difference between the UND-NDSU rivalry and the SDSU and USD rivarly is the locations of the two schools, media, and the absence of a third prong, namely Augustana. Both NODAKS are in located in population centers larger than Brookings and Vermillion. These two schools receive much more publicity from the Fargo Forum and the Grand Forks Herald both. They are both on I-29 75 miles apart. All these little things probably made the NDSU-UND rivalry more intense. I think too, there are some media connections in terms of ownership and that keeps both schools on edge with more coverage.

I dont know the circulation size, but both papers would probably be close to the Argus leader, if not exceed. Their closeness to Minnesota is much different also, both have towns on the other side of the Red River that influence following. What is equivalent to Moorhead in South Dakota? Dare I say Lake Benton and Marshall? Its not the same as Moorhead and East Grand Forks.

SDSU and USD are more dependant on the Sioux Falls Argus for media coverage and that makes a different situation. Plus Augie has in the past been part of a three prong rivalry at least I have seen it that way, and that kind of makes it different from the UND-NDSU rivarly.

Any sports writer out of the Dakotas, would probably not know about the Nickel trophy, but its big in North Dakota and has left a void when NDSU moved up.

[JBB123]

Re: UND Moving Up?

I disagree.  Half the students at NDSU dont even know about any trophy.  A handfull of alumni are caught up in the past.  NDSU football attendance is up almost 20% without an in state DII on the schedule.  

Pitting the two universities against each other as long as they are in different divisions is a mistake because it makes sports fans choose sides.  Its tough to be neutral even after the game so the result is a split audience.

Even in the same division different conferences would be good for the same reasons.  If NDSU and SDSU go to the Mid Con its possible a new arrival could go solo to the BSC, which would be just fine for NDSU.  

If there is no Mid Con invite in our future its up to the BSC.  If they dont step up new additions to the UBC and GWFC are by no means automatic.

Its unfortunate that Und is influenced so heavily by its need to keep up.  I think its clouding their vision.  If they do move NDSU and SDSU are going to have a lot of say in their future.

[HoboD]

Re: UND Moving Up?

I had a recent conversation with a UND coach who indicated that at a recent staff meeting, while they werent told the decision had been made, the implication was that they would be moving up.

[sdman]

Re: UND Moving Up?

If I was a und supporter and they came to me looking for money to improve facilities I wouldn't give a dime to improve what they currently have if they were staying d2. They already have the best facilities in d2 as it is. Complete overkill. But if they were going d1 I would be inclined to help out. I suspect a lot of their fans feel the same way. That 35 million dollar campaign is a give away clue that they are moving on shortly. It will be interesting to see what the others in the ncc do after that. The ncc will probably survive in some mutated form with a bunch of DAC schools but it will never be close to the same.

[filbert]

Re: UND Moving Up?

If I was a und supporter and they came to me looking for money to improve facilities I wouldn't give a dime to improve what they currently have if they were staying d2. They already have the best facilities in d2 as it is. Complete overkill. But if they were going d1 I would be inclined to help out. I suspect a lot of their fans feel the same way. That 35 million dollar campaign is a give away clue that they are moving on shortly. It will be interesting to see what the others in the ncc do after that. The ncc will probably survive in some mutated form with a bunch of DAC schools but it will never be close to the same.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. UND's facilities are absolutely nuts for a D-II school already. I don't see sinking $35M into maintaining a D-II facilities infrastructure. The only way they might go this route is if they were trying to buy out the Engelstad investment for some reason (like to get out from the nickname rock and hard place they're in). My understanding is that Ralph gave all that money for the arena with the stipulation that UND retain the "Fighting Sioux" nickname. The NCAA is telling UND to get rid of the nickname, and doesn't appear inclined to budge.

Frankly, most of the NCC should have gone D-I ten or twenty years ago, and this discussion would have been moot.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

[mitchell]

Re: UND Moving Up?

I wonder if they move up if they will change their mascot. I remember there was talk of making them cover all of their logos up for any tournament hockey play and that it was going to cost them a lot of money. It makes sense that if they do ever change thier mascot, they would do it when the made the move up.

[HoboD]

Re: UND Moving Up?

The Englestadt foundation owns the Ralph and the Betty. They lease it to UND for a buck. It would probably cost millions to remove the logos. It covers the ENTIRE roof when u fly over. It is in the building several THOUSAND places. Every row of seats has it on the end. The main foyer has a huge version of it in italian marble.....its everywhere

[mmiller_34]

Re: UND Moving Up?

The Englestadt foundation owns the Ralph and the Betty.  They lease it to UND for a buck.  It would probably cost millions to remove the logos.  It covers the ENTIRE roof when u fly over.  It is in the building several THOUSAND places.  Every row of seats has it on the end.  The main foyer has a huge version of it in italian marble.....its everywhere

I've never been there. But, that place sounds AWESOME.

[jackmd]

Re: UND Moving Up?

My take:

No way they can keep the name if the are DI and that will create some serious grumbling from the Engelstads. In addition they will need a bunch of money. I think they can raise the funds but thats about as much as I know. Time will tell.

[91rabbit]

Re: UND Moving Up?

If UND "has to" remove the Sioux logo, the money will appear. Funds are always available if the cause if politically correct enough.

Good for UND that they have the generous benefactor in the Englestad fortune. If one has the checkbook and the cojones that same person has every right to call the shots.

Speaking again of the "good old days" back in the dreaded D2 NCC era, I held both ND schools in the highest regard, and, as such, would hope that all on this board would remember that those two institutions along with SDSU were the class of the NCC and give them their proper respect due. What they do with their logo is nobody's business but theirs.

[HoboD]

Re: UND Moving Up?

My take:

No way they can keep the name if the are DI and that will create some serious grumbling from the Engelstads.  In addition they will need a bunch of money.  I think they can raise the funds but thats about as much as I know.  Time will tell.

Actually they could keep the logo on the Englestad even if they went D-1. The ruling, says they cant wear the logo in playoffs or host any regional or national tournaments. So theoretically they could use the Englestad for regular home season games, but after this year would not be allowed to host playoffs and would have to wear other uniforms when they made the playoffs.

[JBB123]

Re: UND Moving Up?

Great article. The 3 ncc schools (UNC, SDSU, and NDSU) that have studied moving up all moved on.  I predict that UND will make the move in the next 2 years.  At least that will get us back to six fb conference members since I suspect they will want to join our conf.  What they will do for the other sports is anybody's guess.  They already have great facilities for d2 - no d2 school is spending another 35 million on facilities to stay in d2.  Seems like overkill to me.  2 years max. and they are gone.

We would schedule them no doubt, but Im not sure they would get into the GWFC.   It might be nice to have six members, but Im not so sure we want to just open the doors.  

They need time working into the DI schedules.  Time to catch up on scholarships, staffing and fundraising.  Then take a look at them for membership, at the end of their transition, not at the begining.  

Lets keep our options open and give the new move ups a few yrs to mature into stable Division I programs.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND Moving Up?

I dont think SDSU or NDSU can stop UND from doing anything they want to do. The NCAA is having a tussel with the logo thing. I am not sure who is winning.

Not for a second will UND not be asked to join the GWFC, the conference needs members. I dont think UND will find getting into the BSC any easier than the other two SU's have found it. I think that they will use everything that the two SU's have done to date  during their reclassification period. Thats about all they got going for them. There are no Denver's near Grand Forks, unless you count Winnipeg. I just don't see UND waltzing into the Big Sky Conference, not without following NDSU and SDSU.