The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

[Hammersmith]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Wow, they plan to move up on a shoestring budget. That report plans for a total budget of $7.1 million in 2012-13(active member). I don't know what you guys are at the moment, but NDSU is at $10.9 million this year, and expects to be above $11.5 million next year. UND is looking at around $18 million by 2012-13(about $9 million at the moment).

[Jacks-02]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Wow, they plan to move up on a shoestring budget. That report plans for a total budget of $7.1 million in 2012-13(active member). I don't know what you guys are at the moment, but NDSU is at $10.9 million this year, and expects to be above $11.5 million next year. UND is looking at around $18 million by 2012-13(about $9 million at the moment).

I agree the number seems low, but also keep in mind that USD doesn't have scholarship Baseball, Hockey, Equestrian, or Wrestling like some of the other schools do. They are pretty much at a minimum as far as offered sports is concerned.

[Hammersmith]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

I agree the number seems low, but also keep in mind that USD doesn't have scholarship Baseball, Hockey, Equestrian, or Wrestling like some of the other schools do. They are pretty much at a minimum as far as offered sports is concerned.

Yeah, that's why UND's number is so high. But NDSU is also near the minimum(we have 16 sports). While we have baseball and wrestling, we don't have W tennis or M/W swimming/diving. You guys and UND are the kings in numbers of sports(21 and 20, respectively).

[JimmyJack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Wow, they plan to move up on a shoestring budget. That report plans for a total budget of $7.1 million in 2012-13(active member). I don't know what you guys are at the moment, but NDSU is at $10.9 million this year, and expects to be above $11.5 million next year. UND is looking at around $18 million by 2012-13(about $9 million at the moment).

I think our consultant report was a little low, too. Aren't we about at $9 million? I can't remember, but I don't think the report envisioned us being that high this soon. The question is, even with a $7.1 million number, whether USD can find the money. They don't have the built-in corporate base that Brookings does with Daktronics, Larson Manufacturing, First Bank & Trust, etc. I suppose they'll look to Sioux City, but that's not the same kind of sell as you would do with big corporate partners that are in your own town.

[sfjacksfan99]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

I still want to know how they think they are going to jump their 36 football scholarships to 63 in two years. Coach Ed said this on national signing day this year.
1. Where's the money coming from?
2. Where are the scholarships getting made up to comply with Title IX?
SDSU has better support for their football than the Coyucks and it's taken the Jacks 4 years to jump that many scholarships.

[JimmyJack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

I still want to know how they think they are going to jump their 36 football scholarships to 63 in two years. Coach Ed said this on national signing day this year.
1. Where's the money coming from?
2. Where are the scholarships getting made up to comply with Title IX?
SDSU has better support for their football than the Coyucks and it's taken the Jacks 4 years to jump that many scholarships.

Maybe somebody who covers USD for a newspaper (you out there, Mick?) should ask them those questions.

Title IX presents an interesting issue here. 27 new football scholarships plus 27 new women's scholarships = 54. Where are those women's scholarships going to go? Who knows? They have nine women's sports, so they'll find someplace.

Plus, you're going to want to be fully-funded in men's and women's basketball, which means going from the NCC's 12 (I think) to 15. So that's six more. Right there you have 60. Plus, since they're making track & field one of their immediate qualifier sports, you'd assume they'll toss a scholarship or two on each side of that ledger. You're looking at 60 to 70 additional scholarships. SDSU budgets $12,000 per scholarship, so that's $720,000 to $800,000 annually they have to find.

I imagine they view football as a potential source for some of that revenue, so it makes sense to get to 63 quickly to get a big payday every year. That'll help.

[1bunnies]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Maybe somebody who covers USD for a newspaper (you out there, Mick?) should ask them those questions.

Title IX presents an interesting issue here. 27 new football scholarships plus 27 new women's scholarships = 54. Where are those women's scholarships going to go? Who knows? They have nine women's sports, so they'll find someplace.

Plus, you're going to want to be fully-funded in men's and women's basketball, which means going from the NCC's 12 (I think) to 15. So that's six more. Right there you have 60. Plus, since they're making track & field one of their immediate qualifier sports, you'd assume they'll toss a scholarship or two on each side of that ledger. You're looking at 60 to 70 additional scholarships. SDSU budgets $12,000 per scholarship, so that's $720,000 to $800,000 annually they have to find.

I imagine they view football as a potential source for some of that revenue, so it makes sense to get to 63 quickly to get a big payday every year. That'll help.

You guys haven't been paying attention. They have it all figured out. They are going to be in the Summit League and the Gateway Conference. We are the ones that are probably all screwed up.

[Nidaros]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

I think our consultant report was a little low, too. Aren't we about at $9 million? I can't remember, but I don't think the report envisioned us being that high this soon. The question is, even with a $7.1 million number, whether USD can find the money. They don't have the built-in corporate base that Brookings does with Daktronics, Larson Manufacturing, First Bank & Trust, etc. I suppose they'll look to Sioux City, but that's not the same kind of sell as you would do with big corporate partners that are in your own town.

What struck me Saturday when watching the ESPN2 D2 championship game, on my cable provider Mediacomm, was several ads spots from First Bank and Trust. These ads were probably purchased locally from Mediacom.

I tend to think the Fishback Financial Corporation will probably help USD since they have a bank in Vermillion. They are trying to put across a message that their bank institution is a big part of the community. Plus I suspect they have USD alums among their employees. I do agree that Vermillion probably has a much smaller corportate community, and its hard to sell in Sioux City. Also the SDSU budget has grown during the transition and if its now 10 million, I would not be surprised. I could not locate the SDSU annual reports that were posted on the offical website.

[Hammersmith]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

Maybe somebody who covers USD for a newspaper (you out there, Mick?) should ask them those questions.

Title IX presents an interesting issue here. 27 new football scholarships plus 27 new women's scholarships = 54. Where are those women's scholarships going to go? Who knows? They have nine women's sports, so they'll find someplace.

Plus, you're going to want to be fully-funded in men's and women's basketball, which means going from the NCC's 12 (I think) to 15. So that's six more. Right there you have 60. Plus, since they're making track & field one of their immediate qualifier sports, you'd assume they'll toss a scholarship or two on each side of that ledger. You're looking at 60 to 70 additional scholarships. SDSU budgets $12,000 per scholarship, so that's $720,000 to $800,000 annually they have to find.

I imagine they view football as a potential source for some of that revenue, so it makes sense to get to 63 quickly to get a big payday every year. That'll help.

It's actually worse than that. If you are going to adhere to the proportionality prong of Title IX, then it's not automatically a 1:1 ratio. Title IX uses full-time, degree seeking undergrads to base the calculations on. At USD, those figures were 1,896 men and 2,456 women as of fall 2006(can't find this year's numbers). With percentages of 43.3% vs 56.7%, it means USD would need to add 1.3 women's scholarships for every 1 men's scholarship if they want to remain in strict compliance with that part of Title IX. To add 27 football scholies, they'd need to add 35 women's. 27+35=62. +basketball; +T&F; +whatever else.

That being said, I doubt they'll stay in strict compliance. I really don't think they can; the numbers just don't work out. They'll fudge some numbers and the BoR will just agree not to look too closely. There will also probably be an "interpretation" of Title IX by those in charge. I don't see any other way out.

[BTownJack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

It's actually worse than that. If you are going to adhere to the proportionality prong of Title IX, then it's not automatically a 1:1 ratio. Title IX uses full-time, degree seeking undergrads to base the calculations on. At USD, those figures were 1,896 men and 2,456 women as of fall 2006(can't find this year's numbers). With percentages of 43.3% vs 56.7%, it means USD would need to add 1.3 women's scholarships for every 1 men's scholarship if they want to remain in strict compliance with that part of Title IX. To add 27 football scholies, they'd need to add 35 women's. 27+35=62. +basketball; +T&F; +whatever else.

That being said, I doubt they'll stay in strict compliance. I really don't think they can; the numbers just don't work out. They'll fudge some numbers and the BoR will just agree not to look too closely. There will also probably be an "interpretation" of Title IX by those in charge. I don't see any other way out.

Hammersmith - you are right on and you have a very good point here. Rep points for you.

Time will tell how this is going to go for USD. I'm willing to wait to see them suffer.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

This thread will definately set the precedance of how SDSU will view USD. When USD gets to full scholarships in half the time it took SDSU, Jacks fans will wonder how it's possible despite the reality in front of them. It's called having deep pockets. Who cares where the money comes from, it's the fact that it is there that will bother SDSU people to no end. When USD has more successes than SDSU fans would like to think they will wonder how it is so? They won't believe it to be true but it will be. USD isn't going to win all the time but they won't lose to SDSU all the time either. Many SDSU fans think that SDSU will win 99% of the time the schools play. Those same fans will be stunned when things don't turn out how they envisioned them. They will also be stunned that USD will be better than they think and handle the transition better then they think.

SDSU fans will be waiting for USD to fail miserably. Enjoy your wait.

[SiouxFallsJack]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

This thread will definately set the precedance of how SDSU will view USD. When USD gets to full scholarships in half the time it took SDSU, Jacks fans will wonder how it's possible despite the reality in front of them. It's called having deep pockets. Who cares where the money comes from, it's the fact that it is there that will bother SDSU people to no end. When USD has more successes than SDSU fans would like to think they will wonder how it is so? They won't believe it to be true but it will be. USD isn't going to win all the time but they won't lose to SDSU all the time either. Many SDSU fans think that SDSU will win 99% of the time the schools play. Those same fans will be stunned when things don't turn out how they envisioned them. They will also be stunned that USD will be better than they think and handle the transition better then they think.

SDSU fans will be waiting for USD to fail miserably. Enjoy your wait.

It's not only having deep pockets but what sports are the additional women scholarships going to? Are the womens sports so underfunded that you can add the scholarships without adding additional sports on the womens side? Does anyone know how this will be accomplished? I can imagine Abbot/Nielson consulting an oracle, reading tea leaves, or maybe asking the magic 8-ball how to stay compliant with Title IX.


As for watching USD fail that started this past Saturday night.

[JackJD]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

SDSU fans will be waiting for USD to fail miserably. Enjoy your wait.

I'm one who is not interested in the failure of an institution.

But...I am looking forward to seeing whether some of your predictions, CoyoteFan, will be close to the actual facts. Sixty-three scholarships in half the time of SDSU? Yeah, right. The old cliche' "time will tell" applies and the actual facts will unfold before us all in the next few years.

I don't think you should make any big bets on your predictions, CoyoteFan.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

This thread will definately set the precedance of how SDSU will view USD. When USD gets to full scholarships in half the time it took SDSU, Jacks fans will wonder how it's possible despite the reality in front of them. It's called having deep pockets. Who cares where the money comes from, it's the fact that it is there that will bother SDSU people to no end. When USD has more successes than SDSU fans would like to think they will wonder how it is so? They won't believe it to be true but it will be. USD isn't going to win all the time but they won't lose to SDSU all the time either. Many SDSU fans think that SDSU will win 99% of the time the schools play. Those same fans will be stunned when things don't turn out how they envisioned them. They will also be stunned that USD will be better than they think and handle the transition better then they think.

SDSU fans will be waiting for USD to fail miserably. Enjoy your wait.

Again Coyote Fan, there is a page full of reasonable, fact finding questions and discussion immediately preceding your post and you go off on a tangent about how SDSU fans don't give USD any respect completely ignoring the logical questions that were brought up. Like I said before, it's a classic posting style if you can get away with it.

Answer some of the questions that are proposed. Or, at least offer your thoughts on how USD will stay title IX compliant under the SDBOR's stringent interpretation and why USD hasn't produced any info on fundraising for the move. Even an attempt to do this might garner you some of the respect you complain about not having.

[jackmd]

Re: The Official USD to D-I Smack Thread

This thread will definately set the precedance of how SDSU will view USD. When USD gets to full scholarships in half the time it took SDSU, Jacks fans will wonder how it's possible despite the reality in front of them. It's called having deep pockets. Who cares where the money comes from, it's the fact that it is there that will bother SDSU people to no end. When USD has more successes than SDSU fans would like to think they will wonder how it is so? They won't believe it to be true but it will be. USD isn't going to win all the time but they won't lose to SDSU all the time either. Many SDSU fans think that SDSU will win 99% of the time the schools play. Those same fans will be stunned when things don't turn out how they envisioned them. They will also be stunned that USD will be better than they think and handle the transition better then they think.

SDSU fans will be waiting for USD to fail miserably. Enjoy your wait.

Again, a major flaw in the approach to transition. You've made several huge assumptions that are in error. USD and its fans/supporters don't need to worry about what supporters of other programs think. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow from SDSU thinks USD has a shot at DI or not. All that matters is whether USD has a solid plan in place and even then they probably need to catch some breaks. There is a good chance, no great chance, that some of the breaks they need to catch are going to come through SDSU.

The smack your catching as a USD fan has to do with the lack of transparency as it applies to the transition. Abbott himself told me the funds were in place for scholarships and infrastructure but when I asked him specifically about numbers, facilities, conference affiliation, etc.. he simply repeated that things were in place.

I made a call to Mike and Craig and asked them why no one was asking the same questions of USD that were asked repeatedly at SDSU. At the time I made that call I wasn't fully aware of the fact that Mike and Craig were so opposed to the DI move that they had checked out so I got crap for answers.

Here is what I've heard. A new building will be going up just south of the dome. That building will provide facilities for basketball and volleyball. I assume that means practice and games. Coach Ed says scholarships for football will be at 57 this year and 63 by the next year allowing them to then schedule a money game. FB has the Great West Conference for now. I've not heard about BB or VB trying to find a home. Track, both men's and women's will be the sports on the "fast track" to post-season eligibility. Good move IMHO.

Abbott says "the money is in place". I don't doubt him. The USD foundation has had great success raising money through alumni donations. I do wonder, as other here have, about corporate support. I don't worry about it I just wonder.

The thing that gets under the skin of some of you USD guys is the fact that we just don't give a damn if we ever play you again. If USD fan doesn't realize that a transition even partially as successful as SDSU's has been would be great for USD, I'm not sure I can help that guy. Hope is not a viable plan.