Zenner continues to get attention

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

Whoa. Let's apply the brakes a bit. I've started a discussion with the other moderators about the subject of politics on this message board.

I think most posters will agree that there are plenty of message boards in which vigorous (some would say sickening) discussion on politics take place. This board has not been used for that purpose.

shot let me just add: that while I understand the sentiment, you're throwing around concepts that deserve or merit a much deeper and academic treatment than a message board. I'm concerned that people on the fringe -- pick the one you don't like -- are going to start verbal/written bomb throwing in a message board set up for one purpose: discussion of SDSU athletics. I've studied the heck out of the concepts and historical underpinnings of "free speech" and "freedom of the press" and we're not going to cover those topics properly in a 100 years of posting on this message board.

"gutless editor" "Pitchfork nation"? Just pointing out that's where political discourse ends up these days. I'm not interested in going to this message board to read what my fellow SDSU fans think about political issues.

CLARIFICATION: I'm throwing discussions on race into a broad category of politics. Perhaps it would be better to just remind everyone of the purpose of this board and keep the discussions limited to that purpose.

How about we just go slow on politics and until the moderators decide how much of that crap we're going to allow on this message board? Up to now, we've avoided politics on SDSUFans.com.

I disagree with your sentiment JD, and the discussion isn't crap.

This is not a political discussion, it is a discussion about a former SDSU athlete. An article about that athlete happens to discuss race, and the article was pulled. People are discussing that.

[shot_5533]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

Jack JD is defending his forum. I see his point. I don't like to mix politics or religion either with my sports. If you read my posts, you'll see I disagree with Zimmer about skin color and the NFL.

Pitchfork nation is a term that Dan Barreiro and his lawyer Ron Rosenboom use on KFAN radio in the Twin Cities and on FOX 9 TV news Friday nights for their television show. I do not think it is a politically charged statement because the radio and TV stations would not let it on the air if it was.

Anyway - this whole post should be moved over to the pro sports forum right under the Naters gotta Nate column.

[shot_5533]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

I think Zimmer should have stopped with lack of respect for SDSU and FCS. To me this is bigger issue than the pigment issue. Lets face it all those scouts who came to Brookings, what did they really think of Zenner? My guess is that they thought a nice clean cut kid with good academic skills, but can he take a weekly beating in the NFL and if so for how long? Was he worthy of a Pick? Probably not, more fitting as a free agent.. When these same scouts went to Fargo to look at John Crockett, their thoughts were pretty much the same would be my guess. Any scout with a racial bias would not last long in my opinion.

Seems like the NFL legends from SDSU have seldom been from the backfield, but more like ends and lineman. The RB is a very skilled position and Wayne Rasmussen was about the only one from SDSU to make a career mark and I think Wayne is 73 years old and played a in much different NFL than today. I think the NFL is getting more messy with each year. My advice to Zack would be to skip the NFL and start your studies towards surgery. I think the medical profession needs ZZ more than the NFL.

Zach wants to try his hand at the NFL first. He can always attend medical school when he is done. It has been accomplished before.

I think TE is a skilled position and Heiden made a very good mark in the NFL. Todd Bouman made a good NFL QB career. I don't know how much SDSU can claim, or should St Cloud State claim him?

The following is a list, incomplete at that, that I found of SDSU NFL players. Danny Batton and Witzmann are missing from the list. Is Witzmann still on the Texan's roster? Didn't they stash him as injured? I think Domino came close too, but ended up just short.

The obvious player missing from the list is Colin Cochart. I remember him as a very skilled pass catching TE. He played for the Bengals. I remember the debates because Meadows never used him and he wound up in the NFL.

Arndt, Al (1935 - 1935)
Barber, Mark (1937 - 1937)
Boden, Lynn (1975 - 1979)
Bouman, Todd (2001 - 2010)
Busch, Mike (1987 - 1987)
Connot, Scott (2004 - 2004)
Eggers, Doug (1954 - 1958)
Engelmann, Wuert (1930 - 1933)
Heiden, Steve (1999 - 2009)
Jenison, Ray (1931 - 1931)
Kelley, Frank (1927 - 1927)
Klawitter, Dick (1956 - 1956)
Klostermann, Bruce (1987 - 1990)
Langer, Jim (1970 - 1981) HOF
Loewen, Chuck (1980 - 1984)
Matthews, Bill (1979 - 1981)
Meyer, Ron (1966 - 1966)
Miller, Doug (1993 - 1994)
Miller, Paul (1936 - 1938)
Pylman, Bob (1938 - 1939)
Rasmussen, Wayne (1964 - 1972)
Retzlaff, Pete (1956 - 1966)
Sisley, Brian (1987 - 1987)
Timmerman, Adam (1995 - 2006)
Vinatieri, Adam (1996 - 2010)

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

Jack JD is defending his forum. I see his point. I don't like to mix politics or religion either with my sports. If you read my posts, you'll see I disagree with Zimmer about skin color and the NFL.

Pitchfork nation is a term that Dan Barreiro and his lawyer Ron Rosenboom use on KFAN radio in the Twin Cities and on FOX 9 TV news Friday nights for their television show. I do not think it is a politically charged statement because the radio and TV stations would not let it on the air if it was.

Anyway - this whole post should be moved over to the pro sports forum right under the Naters gotta Nate column.

I do too. I just think its a bit of a cop out in this case. If Stig wanted to run for governor, could we talk about it? That would get political real quick, but I think it would be very relevant on an SDSU forum. Heck, we don't have any trouble discussing a new stadium, even though that is EXTREMELY political considering the fact that the legislature had to approve it.

IMO, the moderators should moderate discussion, not prevent it. But its not my forum, I'm just a guest here.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

I disagree with your sentiment JD, and the discussion isn't crap.

This is not a political discussion, it is a discussion about a former SDSU athlete. An article about that athlete happens to discuss race, and the article was pulled. People are discussing that.

Certainly not a crap discussion. The problem is any discussion involving race is similar to politics because emotions can run strong no matter what side of the road you are on. JD wants to stop the discussion before it gets so emotionally charged that someone needs to be suspended or banned.

For the most part our society has gotten to the point where we can offend anyone. We are a soceity of wimps. Look no further than the 7 classes of football in SD for proof.

[filbert]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

My main concern here is that the discussion remain more or less respectful, and with an eye towards Board Rule #1: "Don't Piss Off The Barkeepers (Moderators)."

I could go on about the innate, hard-wired tribal instinct of humans and blah blah blah, but whatever.

I didn't see Zimmer's article, but my own sensibility says the A-L should probably not have pulled the article.

Instead of "Pitchfork Nation" I think a slightly more acceptable term in some legal circles might be "heckler's veto." Means approximately the same thing, I would venture to guess.

Except, we veto the hecklers around here.

[shot_5533]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

I do too. I just think its a bit of a cop out in this case. If Stig wanted to run for governor, could we talk about it? That would get political real quick, but I think it would be very relevant on an SDSU forum. Heck, we don't have any trouble discussing a new stadium, even though that is EXTREMELY political considering the fact that the legislature had to approve it.

IMO, the moderators should moderate discussion, not prevent it. But its not my forum, I'm just a guest here.

We also discussed HOF Jim Langer on the forum in the past. Now that one set off a real political firestorm. JD probably wants to prevent something like that from occurring again.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

On a somewhat-related note... It's Bob Seger's 70th Birthday today... Good thing Zimmer didn't make note of that on his blog or people would REALLY be calling for his head!

[filbert]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

We also discussed HOF Jim Langer on the forum in the past. Now that one set off a real political firestorm. JD probably wants to prevent something like that from occurring again.

You're not helping yourself here, you know . . .

EDIT: smiley (imagine one here) omitted unintentionally . . .

[shot_5533]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

BTW - Bryan Witzmann is still listed on the Texans roster. I hope he makes at least their practice squad if not their team. I'd like to see what his measureable are after a year of NFL training.

[Nidaros]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

On a somewhat-related note... It's Bob Seger's 70th Birthday today... Good thing Zimmer didn't make note of that on his blog or people would REALLY be calling for his head!

I stopped following rock music in the 70's so am aware of bob Seger, but hardly see him as controversial. I must be missing something.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

BTW - Bryan Witzmann is still listed on the Texans roster. I hope he makes at least their practice squad if not their team. I'd like to see what his measureable are after a year of NFL training.

Here is an article from October. Sure seems he is part of the team's plans.

Bryan Witzmann on the mend for NFL's Houston Texans

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

I believe I saw "Pitchfork Nation" and "Gutless editors" on the list of failed UND nickname suggestions.

[goon]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

I stopped following rock music in the 70's so am aware of bob Seger, but hardly see him as controversial. I must be missing something.

There was an article out recently about how people stop listening to new music around the age of 33. I did not care to read the whole thing but figured why not start some thread drift. mine was probably more like 23 if anything. Just kidding, but seriously i dont really listen to much for new stuff at all. On a related note to this thread drift I cant wait to see Rush again in a few days. Should be an awesome show.

Sort of about the topic. Its hard to seperate sports and race. Mccoy from bills and his comments, MLB is often talked about in regards to how it viewd and precieved according to race issues, a players race may or may not affect his draft stock. I see both sides of it. I see where Zimmer was going, and its not like he said it was only because of his race he wasnt drafted. Zimmer speaks his mind and nothing wrong with that since he usually backs it up well. Unless he is at a Bob seager concert apparently.......

[HoboJack]

Re: Zenner continues to get attention

To push this back to the topic of Zenner and the NFL draft, about 8 years ago I was on a plane from Atlanta to the Twin Cities, and the gentleman sitting next to me on the plane was an NFL scout for the Atlanta Falcons. When he asked where I was from, he was aware of Brookings and SDSU (I recall that he knew there were a couple of Jacks players on their interest list, but said it wasn't really his territory, so he wasn't sure on specifics). Anyway he told me that as a scout he was more interested in scouting the non-power 5 conference players because it gave him the opportunity to project what a players potential is. He said because of the number of high-end recruits at a school like Alabama, that outside of the obvious studs (i.e. the consensus first/second round picks), everyone else sort of had to maximize their potential in order to get playing time, since the next best player at their position at Alabama would be fairly close in talent level. By the time an average player at Alabama is a Senior, they have likely already maximized their player potential. While on the other hand small school prospects can often be projected to a higher potential because they simply haven't been challenged the same way by their peers.

The job of the scouts is often to identify who has the best chance of reaching their potential, in addition to weighing that against what their perceived ceiling is, or how much better can they get. In the case of Zach, I wonder if his reputation of being intelligent and an extremely hard worker, and somewhat of an overachiever/self-made athlete may have held him back. It may be that scouts think he is already at his max potential as an athlete, and not sure that he was enough better now to compensate for the ceiling that someone else on their list might have.