Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Very UNTRUE, THEY (UND) consider it an Honor, but many Natives HATE the nickname and the LOGO (yes I know first hand but will not get into details on here), but to UND's defense there are also many Natives that don't care either way.

Well then my 70+ year old aunt lied to me? I'm saying that she told me, back when they selected the name, they did it to honor the Native Americans/Tribes. That back then the Native Americans consiered it an honor. The fact that many don't today is another story...and also not surprising.

[Nidaros]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Very UNTRUE, THEY (UND) consider it an Honor, but many Natives HATE the nickname and the LOGO (yes I know first hand but will not get into details on here), but to UND's defense there are also many Natives that don't care either way.

If you spend a great of time doing reseach and surveys, you would find this indifference attitude that is historically long in being the result of American Policy towards Indians, such as hauling the youngsters off the reservations to boarding schools, cutting their braids and punishing them for speaking their native tongues. The current generations are grandchildren to those that had their spirits broken at boarding schools. We attempted to make them middle class hard working Americans and they did not cooperate and now we wonder why they have poor work habits and a high rate of alchololism. I read parts of texts that are used in Indian study courses and there seems to be chapters on the boarding schools at the turn of the 20th century. They were a disaster and now we are paying a price and so are the Native Americans. The only good thing about the Casino's are that they provide jobs within their own culture and give them back some self diginity.

I said enough, I know some are really going to be p@ssed about my comments.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

If UND had put actions behind its words, I'm sure more Indians would consider it an honor.

As it is, they have not accorded the tribes the dignity of treating them as the legitimate owners of their cultural identity, and have appropriated a pastiche of it without apology.

Fifteen, twenty years ago, had UND gotten in front of this, approached the tribes, said, "we want this nickname to honor your heritage, and your tribes must be involved in order to do that," they would not be where they find themselves today.

Instead, UND and Ralph Englestad spent the 90s and the first half of this decade telling the tribes, "We'll do what we want and if you don't like it, you can go pound sand."

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Well then my 70+ year old aunt lied to me? I'm saying that she told me, back when they selected the name, they did it to honor the Native Americans/Tribes. That back then the Native Americans consiered it an honor. The fact that many don't today is another story...and also not surprising.

I don't think he was saying she lied to you, but I have found many things that my elder relatives have told me that turned out not to be true.

Some see it as an honor, some don't. It probably was that way at the time it was selected, and is now. I also would think that some of those that made the selection had honorable intentions and some did not.

This is why when UND signed the agreement with the NCAA the name was doomed. The agreement provides that the tribes can change withdraw their approval and UND has one year to change it. Everyone out there that runs/manages a business: Would keep your logo/name if you knew that any time another entity could decide that you have to change it? Especially when it is your biggest marketing/branding item you have?

This is just silly, and it is coming from people in positions that should no better.

[tjbison]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Well then my 70+ year old aunt lied to me? I'm saying that she told me, back when they selected the name, they did it to honor the Native Americans/Tribes. That back then the Native Americans consiered it an honor. The fact that many don't today is another story...and also not surprising.

K sorry I miss understood your post, the new age doesn't agree and the way its being portrayed and used now, the elders back when would not agree now either

[MikeHenriksen]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

No other school generates this type of discussion about their mascot. If there is that big of a split, the name should be done away with.

Marquette and St. John are 2 DI schools that saw the error of their ways, recently made the change,and moved on. Both are doing just fine. UND should do the same.

[JackJD]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

No other school generates this type of discussion about their mascot. If there is that big of a split, the name should be done away with.

That tends to be my view. UND's nickname is not on my list of things to think about but I am a little surprised that with all this discussion it seems to generate, why not just change the name and move on to discussing more pressing issues. Oh well, not my fight.

[CCdeville]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

ralph has used disparaging words before: maybe that is why most native's want it done with.

http://www.undnews.com/prairie.htm

[JimmyJack]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Well then my 70+ year old aunt lied to me? I'm saying that she told me, back when they selected the name, they did it to honor the Native Americans/Tribes. That back then the Native Americans consiered it an honor. The fact that many don't today is another story...and also not surprising.

She didn't lie. That may well have been the intention and the reaction. But sometimes even well-meaning people can create something that carries unintended meanings. The creators of Chief Wahoo might not have intended to create an image that insults people. But people from a very different background, with their own identity and history, might very well read that logo as offensive.

Ultimately, it's not about historical intentions. It's about contemporary meaning.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Marquette and St. John are 2 DI schools that saw the error of their ways, recently made the change,and moved on. Both are doing just fine. UND should do the same.

Marquette, St. Johns, Syracuse, UM-Crookston (worried about condom references), Arkansas State, Washington Bullets, Seattle U are some that come to mind that have changed.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

K sorry I miss understood your post, the new age doesn't agree and the way its being portrayed and used now, the elders back when would not agree now either

No problem. She did say that they asked permission of tribal leaders to use the name and permission was granted. Now today, in this PC world where so many are so easily offended, they have changed their mind. Question: If UND gave the tribes $5M a year to use the name would the tribes not be offended anymore?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

I would think that some would be and some wouldn't be (offended if tribes received a payment). UND's danger in that scenario is the same as it is currently, the grant of permission can be withdrawn at any time.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

permission was granted

permission was granted in a vague and meaningless sense that conferred no obligation on UND and was not in any way shape or form enforceable.

It would be like a frustrated neighbor saying of his car: "you want it--it's yours for five bucks."

[FargoBison]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

Another twist in the UND nickname saga....

Chancellor Goetz was on KNOX Radio, Mac Talk show this morning and Mac questioned him on the Summit League and name issue. Mac's question was something like does the Summit League want the name resolved or changed. Goetz fumbled for an answer and Mac questioned him again saying he didn't hear resolved or changed in Goetz's answer so he pressed him again whether the Summit wants resolved or changed. Goetz responded -- changed.

http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.p...dpost&p=439901

[SoDakJack]

Re: Sioux nickname change likely with tribe stand

I heard a rumor that Hollywood wanted to make this saga into a movie. Unfortunatly for producers they couldn't get the actors to agree to reprise thier roles for a "Groundhog Day 2."