NCC schools contemplate conference's future

[NightHawk78]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

It's kind of ironic that most people thought that the future of the NCC was going to hinge of UND because the NCC was (claiming, anyway) still standing strong after the departure of UND.. Now that the Fighting Ralphs have made their decision, the fate of the NCC (and Roger's continued employment) will supposedly be determined by the D-1 committees at USD and Augie.

Meanwhile, USD fans are trying to prepare themselves for either possibility. They can cheer for D-1 by saying they'll be competitve tomorrow (and able to beat SDSU) or they can stay D-2 and say that D-1AA football is overrated (and that they would still be able to beat SDSU even though they refuse to travel to Brookings for a game).

I know we've heard from the Mav twins and Coyote_Fan. Are there any other followers of the NCC schools who have any insight as to what is going on (particularly at Augie)???

[SD4Life]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I'll make a bold prediction: Of the three NCC schools studying a move to Division I (UNO, Augie and USD), the number that actually will make such a move will be ... zero. (I think it's safe to say none of the three Minnesota schools is even close to contemplating a move, in light of comments from Augie's AD and others.)

Based on what I've read from school officials, columnists and message board posters, I don't believe any of the three schools really want to go DI. Given the messy financial and PR situation at UNO, I can't see how the school president could pull a 180 in a matter of months and recommend a move up. UNO's decision, in turn, will provide cover to Augie and USD, and the NCC will remain at six members until it expands.

I think the whole matter will be resolved by the fall. UNO's task force, I believe, is expected to issue its findings this summer. That's a pretty tight deadline to recommend something other than a continuation of the status quo.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I'll make a bold prediction: Of the three NCC schools studying a move to Division I (UNO, Augie and USD), the number that actually will make such a move will be ... zero. (I think it's safe to say none of the three Minnesota schools is even close to contemplating a move, in light of comments from Augie's AD and others.)

Based on what I've read from school officials, columnists and message board posters, I don't believe any of the three schools really want to go DI. Given the messy financial and PR situation at UNO, I can't see how the school president could pull a 180 in a matter of months and recommend a move up. UNO's decision, in turn, will provide cover to Augie and USD, and the NCC will remain at six members until it expands.

I think the whole matter will be resolved by the fall. UNO's task force, I believe, is expected to issue its findings this summer. That's a pretty tight deadline to recommend something other than a continuation of the status quo.

Why do you call your prediction a "Bold Prediction" but than later state that based on everything you've read you don't believe any of the schools will move up. Seems like a contradiction to me. Wouldn't it be more of a bold prediction to predict that at least one school will move up. I mean afterall the angle you seem to be getting at is that they will all stay put.

I have to disagree a bit because according to what I have read and by the strange way some of these schools are acting something very well could be up. If the schools wanted to stay D2 it would take a simple announcement. I am not gauranteeing but my feeling is that it's 60-40 in favor of USD moving up. It's probably about 40-60 against Augie moving up, but those still aren't bad odds for the Vikes.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

[quote author=SD4Life link=1152460990/30#31 date=1152820912]I am not gauranteeing but my feeling is that it's 60-40 in favor of USD moving up.  It's probably about 40-60 against Augie moving up, but those still aren't bad odds for the Vikes.    

Wouldn't a 60-40 chance in favor of moving be exactly the same odds as a 40-60 chance against moving? If the first number is the % attributed to the selected option (USD 60% in favor of moving); then the second number is the % attributed to the selected option not happening (Auguie 60% for the opposite of not moving). ;D ;D It is this type of logic that will get USD in a lot of trouble.

[Haldersham]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

[quote author=Coyote_Fan link=1152460990/30#32 date=1152863604][quote author=SD4Life link=1152460990/30#31 date=1152820912]I am not gauranteeing but my feeling is that it's 60-40 in favor of USD moving up.  It's probably about 40-60 against Augie moving up, but those still aren't bad odds for the Vikes.    

Wouldn't a 60-40 chance in favor of moving be exactly the same odds as a 40-60 chance against moving? If the first number is the % attributed to the selected option (USD 60% in favor of moving); then the second number is the % attributed to the selected option not happening (Auguie 60% for the opposite of not moving).  ;D ;D It is this type of logic that will get USD in a lot of trouble.[/quote]

Yep Red Green would love that kind of logic. Just ask Harold.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I think the main reason USD, Augie and UNO are "studying their options" is to quiet the fan base. Once UND moved up, those schools had to do something. Saying they were "studying" the move to jump to D1 makes it easier to say they're staying DII in a couple months. It looks like they really thought hard about it when everyone knows the move wasn't going to happen in the first place.

[89rabbit]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Coyote_Fan,

It is clear that you are very proud of your wins over UNO and UND and I say congrats to you.  Those were fine wins against good teams in your Division.  I am not sure though how from those wins alone you can draw the conclusion that USD would be competitive against I-AA schools.  You made the assertion that:

 The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great.  The top 10 teams of D2 are probably better than at least half the D1AA schools.  USD was either in the top 10 or on the cusp of it.    

yet the facts don't bare you out.  To the best of my recollection UND, UNO, and USD didn't have any I-AA on their schedule.  However, a couple of teams that the Coyotes played did venture into the waters of the I-AA lake.  

Minnesota-Duluth 56 - USD 43

Northern Iowa 49 - Minnesota-Duluth 14

USD 44 - Colorado Mines 41 - OT

Northern Colorado 52 - Colorado Mines 31

Now Northern Iowa was a beast last year in I-AA, but Northern Colorado would definitely be considered bottom half of I-AA last year (with a 4-7 record and No wins in the Great West Football Conference) and they smoked a team that USD had to beat in OT.  Unless you can show me some statistical proof, I just have a hard time buying your argument that "The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great".  Common sense tells us that there has to be a difference based on scholarship levels only.  After all there is a greater difference between the scholarship max from D-II to I-AA then there is between I-AA and I-A.  

I'm afraid that USD is many years away from having much of a chance at upsetting the Jackrabbits.  However, I encourage you to put pressure on your University.  A match up with your Coyotes would be an early season highlight and a nice warm up game for SDSU.  I would love to see your boys make a trip up to Brookings for a guarantee game.  Best of luck to your team this coming season.


Just for the record .  .  .


SDSU 30 - UNC 14


Go State!  


I-AA schools in bold

[NightHawk78]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I think the main reason USD, Augie and UNO are "studying their options" is to quiet the fan base. Once UND moved up, those schools had to do something. Saying they were "studying" the move to jump to D1 makes it easier to say they're staying DII in a couple months. It looks like they really thought hard about it when everyone knows the move wasn't going to happen in the first place.

If the NCC is fine and dandy (with six members), Augie and USD would have issued a statement saying they were content with D-2 and the NCC and were looking forward to establishing new rivalries within the NCC as it expands to eight or ten teams. I still think that they are both very seriously about moving back up to D-1.

As for UNO, the MIAA must have given them a pretty quick rejection. The NCC appears to be dying and UNO might have to decide which way it will drastically alter its athletic program: gut it, cut it, or D-1 it.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Coyote_Fan,

It is clear that you are very proud of your wins over UNO and UND and I say congrats to you.  Those were fine wins against good teams in your Division.  I am not sure though how from those wins alone you can draw the conclusion that USD would be competitive against I-AA schools.  You made the assertion that:

[quote author=Coyote_Fan link=1152460990/0#8 date=1152578536]  The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great.  The top 10 teams of D2 are probably better than at least half the D1AA schools.  USD was either in the top 10 or on the cusp of it.    

yet the facts don't bare you out.  To the best of my recollection UND, UNO, and USD didn't have any I-AA on their schedule.  However, a couple of teams that the Coyotes played did venture into the waters of the I-AA lake.  

Minnesota-Duluth 56 - USD 43

Northern Iowa 49 - Minnesota-Duluth 14

USD 44 - Colorado Mines 41 - OT

Northern Colorado 52 - Colorado Mines 31

Now Northern Iowa was a beast last year in I-AA, but Northern Colorado would definitely be considered bottom half of I-AA last year (with a 4-7 record and No wins in the Great West Football Conference) and they smoked a team that USD had to beat in OT.  Unless you can show me some statistical proof, I just have a hard time buying your argument that "The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great".  Common sense tells us that there has to be a difference based on scholarship levels only.  After all there is a greater difference between the scholarship max from D-II to I-AA then there is between I-AA and I-A.  

I'm afraid that USD is many years away from having much of a chance at upsetting the Jackrabbits.  However, I encourage you to put pressure on your University.  A match up with your Coyotes would be an early season highlight and a nice warm up game for SDSU.  I would love to see your boys make a trip up to Brookings for a guarantee game.  Best of luck to your team this coming season.


Just for the record .  .  .


SDSU 30 - UNC 14


Go State!  


I-AA schools in bold[/quote]


Very nice work, 89. ;D ;D ;D

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Coyote_Fan,

It is clear that you are very proud of your wins over UNO and UND and I say congrats to you.  Those were fine wins against good teams in your Division.  I am not sure though how from those wins alone you can draw the conclusion that USD would be competitive against I-AA schools.  You made the assertion that:

[quote author=Coyote_Fan link=1152460990/0#8 date=1152578536]  The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great.  The top 10 teams of D2 are probably better than at least half the D1AA schools.  USD was either in the top 10 or on the cusp of it.    

yet the facts don't bare you out.  To the best of my recollection UND, UNO, and USD didn't have any I-AA on their schedule.  However, a couple of teams that the Coyotes played did venture into the waters of the I-AA lake.  

Minnesota-Duluth 56 - USD 43

Northern Iowa 49 - Minnesota-Duluth 14

USD 44 - Colorado Mines 41 - OT

Northern Colorado 52 - Colorado Mines 31

Now Northern Iowa was a beast last year in I-AA, but Northern Colorado would definitely be considered bottom half of I-AA last year (with a 4-7 record and No wins in the Great West Football Conference) and they smoked a team that USD had to beat in OT.  Unless you can show me some statistical proof, I just have a hard time buying your argument that "The difference between D2 and D1AA football is not that great".  Common sense tells us that there has to be a difference based on scholarship levels only.  After all there is a greater difference between the scholarship max from D-II to I-AA then there is between I-AA and I-A.  

I'm afraid that USD is many years away from having much of a chance at upsetting the Jackrabbits.  However, I encourage you to put pressure on your University.  A match up with your Coyotes would be an early season highlight and a nice warm up game for SDSU.  I would love to see your boys make a trip up to Brookings for a guarantee game.  Best of luck to your team this coming season.


Just for the record .  .  .


SDSU 30 - UNC 14


Go State!  


I-AA schools in bold[/quote]

Good Stuff ++++++++++++

[89rabbit]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Bringing this thread back to the subject line . . .

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...PORTS/60725029

Commissioners of Northern Sun, North Central Conference may meet

From staff reports
July 25, 2006

FARGO, N.D. – Commissioners of two area NCAA Division II conferences may be getting together soon.

Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference Commissioner Butch Raymond said Monday that he hopes to talk with North Central Conference Commissioner Roger Thomas this week about issues affecting both leagues.

“The door has always been open,” Raymond said. “Maybe now would be the time that we should sit down and take a look at some different scenarios, discuss some issues and dispel some of the issues out there.”

Since the University of North Dakota announced last month it will move to NCAA Division I in all sports, rumors have been swirling about a possible merger between the NCC and NSIC. . . . (read more)



Go State!

[NightHawk78]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Is ol' Roger going to beg Butch Raymond not to raid what's left of his conference so he doesn't have to hit the unemployment line?? It would be interesting to see this meeting since Butch (and the NSIC) would have the upper hand over Roger.

I'm making an assumption that the NSIC adamently does not want its conference raided because their members need enough conference games (18 now, I think) in basketball in order to meet D-2 requirements and minimize the number of potentially-costly (out-of-region) OOC games. I know that was a concern for Butch when he was AD at SMSU and the NSIC had expanded (Wayne, Concordia, and Crookston) at that time.

[Haldersham]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I can help but think the big issue in merger will be the difference in football scholarships.  I can see them working together in some sports such as wrestling and other sports where neither conference has more than 4 participants, but both conferences woulld have 8 to 9 together. I E golf and tennis.

Fred Oien said privately once, early on during the exploration of D1, that he would rather risk following NDSU than stick around to see who is left in the NCC. I guess his gut feelings were very correct.

[RodentiaX1]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I'm sure the NSIC doesn't want to get raided, but the NCC has more to fear from being raided. If the NCC gets raided, there won't be enough left to have a conference. A NSIC-NCC meeting is a good idea. I'd invite the DAC-10 along too. Get a big conference room, order lots of pizza, brew many pots of coffee, lock the doors and figure out what the conferences are going to look like. If the DAC-10 move up to D-II, that gives more options. If not, an NSIC-NCC merger makes sense. Maybe some of the teams might have to move down.

[89rabbit]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...PORTS/60726030

North Central Conference commissioner wants to expand league

The associated press
July 26, 2006


North Central Conference Commissioner Roger Thomas says his focus is on expanding his league before discussing a merger with the rival Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference.

Thomas met Tuesday with NSIC commissioner Butch Raymond in Alexandria, Minn.

“Our No. 1 priority is to have the North Central Conference grow,” Thomas said. “If that doesn’t happen, maybe we’ll go to something else. I’m not trying to put (a merger) down. It’s just one piece of a complex puzzle. Some of it is out of our control and some is not.”
Talk of a possible merger has surfaced after an announcement that NCC power University of North Dakota was leaving for Division I, dropping the league’s membership to six. Other NCC schools have since begun to study their own classification and conference affiliation. . . .

Thomas said he and Raymond discussed NCC’s interest in NSIC members Winona State and Concordia-St. Paul.

“As our membership changes, those schools have been looking at the whole Division II picture,” Thomas said. “(Conversations) will be ongoing. We’re going to continue to look for members.”

Raymond said he hopes NCC can continue.

“We both feel the same way,” Raymond said. “We feel it’s best if the North Central stay operating. We have a good rivalry going, and it makes for good competition. If they can stay at six (schools) there will be no further talks. If they go below six, that’s when serious talks would have to begin.” . . . (read more)




Go State!