Why USD CAN go DI.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I would think that most people who have attended separate undergrad and grad schools would fall into that category, certainly not unique to SDSU/USD.

I somewhat fall into this category. When I first attended Grad School at Wisconsin-Milwaukee, SDSU was still in Div II, so I had both a team in Div I and Div II. Now since they are both in Div I, I ultimately cheer for both; but ultimately my heart is with SDSU.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Here's where the 'yotes discuss their choices.

http://coyotesports.proboards100.com...ead=1144552782

Question oh fellow rabbits, DO WE WANT COYOTES TO JOIN US IN D-I, or is the separate divisions better for both schools and the state of SD?

[thebluehatman]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

From the Coyote board. USD is the premier institution of higher learning in the state. The improvements in the infrastructure of the campus the last few years have been amazing and work to cement this position. A move to DI would, in a sense, allow athletics to supersede the focus of the university.
What I see as a student going to SDSU
IMO USD is a premier school for doctors and lawyers, which we have enough of already in the world. SDSU is the premier school for engineers, and agriculture in the state. We don't need to build a new building every year on campus to attract people to the campus. maybe im wrong on this one, but we have over 11,000 students compared to whatever USD has down there. but we are looking as good if not better than USD academic wise, we keep adding new areas of study from what i see in the argus and they don't really do anything down there to add students or anything.

[filbert]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Here's where the 'yotes discuss their choices.

http://coyotesports.proboards100.com...ead=1144552782

Question oh fellow rabbits, DO WE WANT COYOTES TO JOIN US IN D-I, or is the separate divisions better for both schools and the state of SD?

In the end, it's not our decision. USD's administration needs to make the right decision for USD and for the state. Hopefully they'll get beyond acting out of envy, uncertainty, and panic, and do what is right.

I think that SDSU supporters also need to get past the emotions of the past to look at the big picture of what would really be best for our institution. None of us are particularly eager for the return of dead rabbits and carrots on the floor. But consider the upside of a full Frost Arena and maybe the game on the Fox Sports North (or one of the ESPN's?) in the not-too-distant future.

I'm personally OK either way USD decides, but darn, some of those State-U games were fun.

[West_River_Jack]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

When SDSU made the move to D1 the Coyotes found that they had a bit of a problem which may have become more significant than they anticipated.  The SDSU/USD rivalry was as great as it was because each school had a passionate fan base.  USD has sought a new rival with little success.  Augie has been less than competitive so that rivalry has really gone bust.  Morningside had already left so that rivalry was gone.  UNO doesn't have enough passionate fans to establish a good rivalry.  And when UND made its announcement, my daughter, a current USD student summed it all up by saying something like, "Well there goes that chance for us to have a new rival."

The Coyotes have already experienced a feeling of lonliness, even without waiting for the rest of the NCC to crumble.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

[quote author=rabidrabbit link=1150320172/15#16 date=1151027347]Here's where the 'yotes discuss their choices.

http://coyotesports.proboards100.com...ead=1144552782

Question oh fellow rabbits, DO WE WANT COYOTES TO JOIN US IN D-I, or is the separate divisions better for both schools and the state of SD?

In the end, it's not our decision.  USD's administration needs to make the right decision for USD and for the state.  Hopefully they'll get beyond acting out of envy, uncertainty, and panic, and do what is right.

I think that SDSU supporters also need to get past the emotions of the past to look at the big picture of what would really be best for our institution.  None of us are particularly eager for the return of dead rabbits and carrots on the floor.  But consider the upside of a full Frost Arena and maybe the game on the Fox Sports North (or one of the ESPN's?) in the not-too-distant future.

I'm personally OK either way USD decides, but darn, some of those State-U games were fun.[/quote]

I agree with all the above. I'd love to get back the rivalry, the intrastate battles that we shared for 90+ years. However, I'm not about to finance their change. That's for them to figure out.

I DO like being the ONLY D-I in SD. I do like what's occurring for enrollment. I do like the heightened awareness of SDSU and SDSU athletics. I think that we fit into D-IAA well.

Of the 9 move-ups in D-I announced this year, only two are "peer" institutions, and SHOULD be D-I. These are UND and UCA. Presbyterian, SCSU-Upstate, FL Gulf Coast, Jacksonville (FL). Nadda.

USD history, performance, and rivalries are against the other 3 schools. D-II isn't the NCC anymore, it's the NSIC. From that perspective, they need to be D-I. But they need to have the vision on how they are going to be affording D-I.

Ultimately, if they move-up, I expect that we'll see them in a conference again. Hopefully, we'll have good news from Mid-Con in 4 days, and we can start setting up to be one of the bedrock schools of the mid-con and lead it's improvement.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Should USD make the move? I don't know if they can finance it. The declaration that they are the premier academic university in SD carries all the weight of Dallas declaring themselves America's Team. To their fans, it is true; to the rest it is marketing.

IMO, USD's biggest problem is not convincing their alumni that it is the right thing to do. It is the fact that they have a reducing number of alumni, as compared to SDSU. The fact that the med & law schools are there do not give them much of an advantage. It is not uncommon for the law school to have more SDSU undergrads than USD undergrads in a given class. Also, I believe SDSU grants more advanced degrees than USD each year because the larger number of programs (I may be wrong on this, can't remember where I heard that).  Also, many engineering under-grads start out making a lot more money than law school grads start at. Because SDSU's attendance is roughly double USD's the gap is increasing each year.

USD's other problem is facilities. The dome is not a bad football venue. What else do they have? Basketball - dome. Track - dome. Swimming - dome. If people think SDSU needed too many facility upgrades to go D1, USD is in far worse position. BB & track have been successful programs for USD recently, but long term need new facilites (SDSU's track facilities are admittedly horrible).

Revenue-generating sports are Mens BB and FB. Frost vs the Dome is no comparision. Coughlin vs Dome maybe closer, but I prefer an outdoor stadium. My opinions are as a FAN, I'll let those of have played competively in the facilities address them from the players perspective. In either case, I think SDSU was ahead when they started the transition.

If USD can address those concerns, they will be a long way down the road to a successful transition.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

USD actually has one factor in its favor that SDSU did not have three years ago (but it will help us now!) when we announced our move up to D-1: Low out-of-state tuition at all Regental schools.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...0/1001/ARCHIVE

(I believe this may be an abbreviated version.)

This change in tuition policy will make scholarships cheaper for Athletic Depts. when they recruit out-of-state athletes (paritcularly those to the south and east). In addition, lower tuition may help convince an athlete to acept a partial scholarship (in those sports that do offer partial scholarships at the D-1 level).

[89rabbit]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Recently I have been reading and hearing some pretty inflated numbers for USD's athletics budget.  Craig and Mike were saying that they "thought" it was 6 million dollars.  So I went back to the Volante story from the spring of '05, when USD's school paper was reporting on their athletic budget deficit, and I quote .  .  .

http://www.volanteonline.com/media/s...anteonline.com

For the fiscal year of 2005, it was reported that the operating budget for USD's athletic department was $2,823,749. However, Redlin and his associates have not calculated the exact deficit.

That is a far cry from $6 million, and farther still from SDSU's $7,786,393.  Now I am sure USD's budget did go up some in '06 but I am pretty sure it didn't go up from $2.8 million to $6 million as some have "reported"/guessed.  This is not to say that USD can't make the move, it just means they have a lot of work to do.  SDSU's budget is more then double that of USD and our budget keeps getting bigger as we ramp up for D-I success.  


Go State!  

[jackmd]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Its nowhere near 6 million. Closer to half that. Craig and Mike with more unbiased "facts" about South Dakota's institutions of higher learning.

[filbert]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp lists USD's budget for 2004-05 as $4,311,013 revenues, $4,265,076 expenses.

SDSU's budget numbers for the same year (2004-05) were $6,280,833 revenues, $6,547,381 expenses--153% of USD's budget.

[JimmieTuba]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp lists USD's budget for 2004-05 as $4,311,013 revenues, $4,265,076 expenses.

SDSU's budget numbers for the same year (2004-05) were $6,280,833 revenues, $6,547,381 expenses--153% of USD's budget.

Except for the fact that the Jacks were in the red. Would rather have the smaller budget and be in the black.

[89rabbit]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

SDSU's '05-'06 budget is balanced.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary...port_05-06.pdf

Budgeted revenue total of $7,786,383.

Budgeted expenses total of $7,786,383.


Go State!

[thebluehatman]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

even stevens, would be nice to be a little more in the black. but we're doing good so far.

[filbert]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Remember too that 04-05 was the first year of transition, with only 11 home basketball games (all of which against basically unknowns) and two road trips to the East Coast and one to the West coast, and a football season with 4 home games, 2 road trips to California, one to Utah, one to Louisiana, and one to Georgia.

Lots of travel and relatively little gate revenue--hard to balance the budget doing that.