Why USD CAN go DI.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Don't worry, CatchEmAll. I'm just typing down my thoughts and hoping for informative feedback and discussion. Thanks for the compliment, btw.

As for the guarantee games in FB, SDSU got around $40-50K to play (and beat) Southern in our first year with a I-AA schedule. In year three, NDSU is playing Ball State and Minnesota. It'll likely be six to eight years before USD gets the I-A games, but the change to allow for a I-AA game to count every year (as opposed to four) has allowed many I-AA schools to pick up one or two games against the I-A schools.

As for enthusiasm and attendance, an improved schedule will help the overall program. SDSU and the NoDak schools are more desired games than Upper Iowa and Crookston. Season-ticket sales will be improved as fans may buy them to guarantee a ticket to key matchups. (Conversely, USD in D-1 may help improve SDSU season ticket sales.

Finally, there is a bit of sarcasm in point 7. I should have placed quotes around the "University" to begin with. Just remember, that USD backers don't think the regular rules always apply to them. In fact, SDSU supporters may have to swallow their pride and help USD if it would make building a new football stadium (or another significant project) more feasible.

[Yote53]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Bitterness is not helpful to any one, even to an individual such as yourself who as long since hung up the pads. You may have been a good football player and represented USD in a honorable manner, but does that give you the right to have an immature attitude for the rest of your life? I dont think so.  If you feel so passionate about USD, do you plan on opening your checkbook to the Coyote Club?

Seriously, you have to be kidding me, right?  Because I do not like your school I have an immature attitude?  You can come off your soapbox anytime now.  And yes, the checkbook has been open to the CAF.  

A blanket answer to the rest of the posts, I get it.  I expected some ribbing and shots being taken at the U on this board.  From your perspective, you don't think anything that you are writing is smack.  From my perspective it is all smack, but that's alright.

One theme I keep hearing is that USD is bitter towards State.  We're jeolous.  That really isn't true.  I guess the best way you could describe it is that State is irrelevent.  We don't play you anymore, how can you be relevent?  The overriding reason for USD making a move up is not because of State.  It is because of the NCC, because of what is happening in D2.  Because USD does not in any way resemble SW Minn St, or Concordia, or Upper Iowa.  We don't want to be in a conference with them.  It would be game after game of 77-0 and 59-7 beatdowns that we would lay on those schools...oh, until they get schollie limits dragged down to about 18 or so.  How much fun is that going to be?  No, the schools we belong with have moved on, it is high time we move on ourselves.  

[RonRabbit]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

[b]The overriding reason for USD making a move up is not because of State.  It is because of the NCC, because of what is happening in D2.  Because USD does not in any way resemble SW Minn St, or Concordia, or Upper Iowa.  We don't want to be in a conference with them.  It would be game after game of 77-0 and 59-7 beatdowns that we would lay on those schools...oh, until they get schollie limits dragged down to about 18 or so.  How much fun is that going to be?  No, the schools we belong with have moved on, it is high time we move on ourselves.  

I think that comment is pretty accurate. It makes all the more impressive the foresight SDSU's and NDSU's administrations had a few years ago. The dilution of DII was an important factor then and is being proved now. Many people were pretty tough on Dr. Oien and Pres. Miller but I think the past few years has proved they were right.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I'll agree (to some extent) that SDSU is not the reason USD is moving up to DI. But any Yote fan has to admit that for all of the efforts put forth by USD related individuals to stop SDSU's move to DI we have every right to have an attitude regarding USD's impending move. Whether or not those same people are for or against USD's move is irrelevant to me. The fact is SDSU, Dr's Miller and Oien were villified by all comers for their decisions, and now that same decision appears to be good enough for the U, which had individuals leading the charge against SDSU.

Yote53, you have to be one of the few U supporters that things State is irrelevant. Which I think if great because the day we moved up (even before then), USD became irrelevant in my eyes. If/when USD makes the move up I hope not as much emphasis is put on the rivalry as before. In DI there are plenty of big fish to try to fry. Having an instate rival is great, but not to the extent that it becomes the only game on the schedule, which in the DII days that's what it seemed like. Just my opinion though.

[filbert]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

[quote author=Yote53 link=1150320172/90#91 date=1154531799]The overriding reason for USD making a move up is not because of State. It is because of the NCC, because of what is happening in D2. Because USD does not in any way resemble SW Minn St, or Concordia, or Upper Iowa. We don't want to be in a conference with them. It would be game after game of 77-0 and 59-7 beatdowns that we would lay on those schools...oh, until they get schollie limits dragged down to about 18 or so. How much fun is that going to be? No, the schools we belong with have moved on, it is high time we move on ourselves.

I think that comment is pretty accurate. It makes all the more impressive the foresight SDSU's and NDSU's administrations had a few years ago. The dilution of DII was an important factor then and is being proved now. Many people were pretty tough on Dr. Oien and Pres. Miller but I think the past few years has proved they were right.
[/quote]

Seems to me that we have a huge point of agreement here.

I happen to think it's time for USD to move up as well. I think the rivalry is a net positive for both schools (although like all such intense rivalries gets taken to unsavory extremes).

The key is that the USD community decides what is best for USD. To that extent I also tend to agree that it shouldn't matter what SDSU's status is.

Of course, that's not how the real world works--SDSU's move can't help but affect how the USD community is viewing the reclassification decision. To the extent that SDSU and USD are peer flagship universities in S.D., to the extent that they compete for the same students, the same research dollars, it matters greatly how the two universities are viewed. The fact that renewing the rivalry with SDSU is an argument in favor of USD's moving to D-I says directly and explicitly that it matters that the two schools are competing on the same level.

If the USD community decides to continue down the road of increasing selectiveness that they started down after SDSU announced the D-I move, that's OK with me. I don't agree with that path but if that's what USD wants to do, more power to them. If they decide to pursue D-I athletics, I'm OK with that, too.

[jackmd]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

USD must assure that the recent changes with regards to athletics remain a priority if they want to move the university to the DI ranks. This needs to happen without jeopardizing academics and must be done within the regulations of DI athletics. The committee is in place to assure that what is best for USD has a whole is what occurs. I look for a well thought out but tough decision to be made.

[Haldersham]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Bitterness is not helpful to any one, even to an individual such as yourself who as long since hung up the pads. You may have been a good football player and represented USD in a honorable manner, but does that give you the right to have an immature attitude for the rest of your life? I dont think so.  If you feel so passionate about USD, do you plan on opening your checkbook to the Coyote Club?

Seriously, you have to be kidding me, right?  Because I do not like your school I have an immature attitude?  You can come off your soapbox anytime now.  And yes, the checkbook has been open to the CAF.  

A blanket answer to the rest of the posts, I get it.  I expected some ribbing and shots being taken at the U on this board.  From your perspective, you don't think anything that you are writing is smack.  From my perspective it is all smack, but that's alright.

One theme I keep hearing is that USD is bitter towards State.  We're jeolous.  That really isn't true.  I guess the best way you could describe it is that State is irrelevent.  We don't play you anymore, how can you be relevent?  The overriding reason for USD making a move up is not because of State.  It is because of the NCC, because of what is happening in D2.  Because USD does not in any way resemble SW Minn St, or Concordia, or Upper Iowa.  We don't want to be in a conference with them.  It would be game after game of 77-0 and 59-7 beatdowns that we would lay on those schools...oh, until they get schollie limits dragged down to about 18 or so.  How much fun is that going to be?  No, the schools we belong with have moved on, it is high time we move on ourselves.  

Kidding you?? No I am not, and whether its SDSU or any other person, group or what have you. Bitterness does not work, maybe it helps get a team up for a football game, but coaches often will do anything and everything to get their team to perform. I guess I dont have a mutual bitterness towards USD or towards you as a person. I dont think USD is above criticism and neither is SDSU and I feel criticism should be mentioned when it applies. Oh yes USD is relevent.  I would agree with your points about not wanted to being connected to SWMSU and Upper Iowa. The dwindling quality of scheduling and competition should be the driving force to move up to D1 at USD and elsewhere. So we agree there. Have a nice day, keep up your support of USD. Thats a good thing.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Wasn't able to see the detailed report, just 47 blank pages. The date of the meeting was June 7, 2006, since UND announced its switch about 2 weeks later. Maybe that is why the detailed report is no longer available. Here is the summary in the minutes, but it looks like USD was not looking favorable on moving to D-1.

Athletic Board of Control


The biggest concern facing USD athletics currently is the loss of UND and possibly St. Cloud State and Minnesota State at Mankato from this conference. It is not the desire of administration to move to Division I.  [emphasis added]

We have debated to death the UND impact, but not much comment on the SCSU & MSU-M apparent commitment to the NCC. I admit that I probably have left this out of my thinking, so I went back and reviewed the posts and it has been largely ignored. What do you think? Does their commitment to the NCC make it easier for USD to stay D-2 or is it a non-factor?

[Jacks15]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

i would think that if MSU-M and SCSU say they both are going to stay with the NCC it should make things easier, but I believe that USD also is more interested in what is happening in the Dakotas. I truly believe that USD will worry more about what is good for them, not the Minnesota schools.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

The two biggest things that have happened since USD decided to put together their classification committee are first of all that D2 is going to consider splitting up into two levels of football. D2A and D2AA. The most recent is that UNO is now seriously looking at the possibility of going to the MIAA. Niether would be an indication that USD would be more likely to stay D2 or to be more committed to the NCC

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I don't think it's as much UNO looking to the possibility of joining the MIAA as it is UNO hoping the MIAA will extend an invite. If that invite was extended I think it would take about 0.1 seconds for them to accept. Much like SDSU and the Big Sky, though, that option has long been speculated and never really materialized.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

From Yote53:
One theme I keep hearing is that USD is bitter towards State.  We're jeolous.  That really isn't true.  I guess the best way you could describe it is that State is irrelevent.  We don't play you anymore, how can you be relevent?  The overriding reason for USD making a move up is not because of State.  It is because of the NCC, because of what is happening in D2.  Because USD does not in any way resemble SW Minn St, or Concordia, or Upper Iowa.  We don't want to be in a conference with them.  It would be game after game of 77-0 and 59-7 beatdowns that we would lay on those schools...oh, until they get schollie limits dragged down to about 18 or so.  How much fun is that going to be?  No, the schools we belong with have moved on, it is high time we move on ourselves.  

Yote53, there does seem to be a couple of things you are looking at when it comes to "State being irrelevent."  

1.  If we are so irrelevent, what are you and others doing on the message board for the irrelevent SDSU Jackrabbits?  You wouldn't even be here unless we are in fact relevant to you and Coyote_Fan!  There is a USD message board, please go find it!

2.  The amount of effort that was put forth by numerous USD supporters to ry and block SDSU's move in the first place explains how relevent SDSU is to USD!  The thing that is going to blow up in USD's face is the same things that they worked to get in place will now hinder USD's move up if you choose to.

I wish USD the best because it is a South Dakota University.  Sure, I root for the Jackrabbits and hope they beat the living crap out of the 'Yotes on the athletic field, but I don't wish ill will!  Heck, I miss the rivalry with USD, but I don't miss anything else about D-II and look forward to what the future holds for SDSU.

In my opinion, USD is in between a rock and a hard place as where the move for SDSU was very clear to me.  It was a no-brainer to move to D-I.  The decision is a very difficult one for USD and it will cause a lot more heartburn for USD fans than the move caused for SDSU fans.  I hope that the administration put together a balanced committee to study USD's options rather than rubber-stamp a pre-meditated decision because you will have to live with their recommendation!

Good and all the best to USD!

SUPERBUNNY

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

The two biggest things that have happened since USD decided to put together their classification committee are first of all that D2 is going to consider splitting up into two levels of football.  D2A and D2AA.  The most recent is that UNO is now seriously looking at the possibility of going to the MIAA.  Niether would be an indication that USD would be more likely to stay D2 or to be more committed to the NCC  

The apparent lack of committment of UNO to the NCC may play a bigger role than we all think. If UNO bolts for the MIAA there goes the NCC. Likewise, if any of the remaining teams bolt for any other conference or division, there goes the NCC. The Mavtwins like to rag on us for hopefully joining a conference that's had 23 teams in 25 years. Well, the Mid-Con is a lot more stable than the NCC right now. It's been said before, USD is stuck b/w a rock and a hard place. I think they need to plan for a future w/out the NCC.

[jackmd]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I don't think it's as much UNO looking to the possibility of joining the MIAA as it is UNO hoping the MIAA will extend an invite.  If that invite was extended I think it would take about 0.1 seconds for them to accept.  Much like SDSU and the Big Sky, though, that option has long been speculated and never really materialized.

MJA is on the money here and I think the Mav supporters on this board would second that. However, my understanding is that no invite is coming from the MIAA any time soon.

RLV is right too and I'll take it a step further, DI is a much better place to be then DII regardless of conference affiliation or stability. (Duh right?)

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I think there may be more to the UNO to MIAA than previously thought. Shatel indicates that the MIAA would be looking to add in 2 years, or when the NCC falls apart. I would still think that the MIAA would have to swallow hard if UNO had not solved there current issues, however 2 years should do that. (OWH is subscription site, but free)

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=...;u_sid=2219105

...

That's right. At the same time Belck was throwing her athletic director under the bus, Herbster was trying to navigate the course for UNO's future.

Doesn't sound much like a puppet or a lame duck, does it?

"David initiated the contact," McFillen said. "There is an interest by our institutions at expanding in the future. We would like to go beyond our current number. UNO would be a good fit."

Wow. The MIAA is the Big Ten of Division II. It's a power league, a 36-scholarship football conference. The perfect place for UNO to maintain its status as a Division II athletic giant. And do so by bus.

The thought would be that UNO could join the MIAA, continue playing serious football and find a stable home. Meanwhile, UNO could figure out if and when it wants to move up to Division I.

That's the perfect scenario, the light at the end of the tunnel for an athletic department watching the North Central Conference collapse around it. This is the perfect vision. Herbster's vision.

"We're in the information-gathering stage now," Herbster said on Friday. "But I do think this is a great fit, academically, athletically and geographically. This is the best option in Division II for us. There is no reasonable place for us to go."

McFillen said his league has no timetable, but wouldn't be against adding UNO in two years, when the NCC is expected to fall apart. He said the MIAA also is not set on an even number, and having to add two schools. He said UNO could be the lone addition, much like Penn State in the Big Ten.

...