UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

[SD-STATE]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

I finally read an article by Stu that I agreed with and liked. UND seems to think that this little problem will go away. It won't. It will be interesting to see how the new president search goes. Maybe they will find somebody that likes alot of challenges. Alot of challenges.

[2002jack]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

Maybe it is SDSU's responsibility to stand up an oppose UND on this issue. To my understanding, the Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota tribes find this to be vulgar and oppresive name. It has a similar meaning as the "N" word. SD has a large population of Native Americans, and SDSU has alot of Native Americans enrolled in school (and alumni). It might be time for our University to take a stand and refuse to play UND, and not accept them into a conference until a change is made.

I'm on the fence on this issue. I'm a stupid white male. I'd like to hear more from somebody who is a Lakota, Dakota, or Nakota.

I would suggest with all the trailer parks and white trash in Vermillion that USD consider changing their name to the Dirty Rednecks.

[2002jack]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

I don't believe Seminoles is considered a derogatory name, nor is the Irish, they are from Ireland.   The term "Fighting" can be debated.

This arugment about "Sioux" has me quite confused.  We have a casino that the Native Americans named Dakota Sioux Casino and we have the Sioux River, Sioux Falls, Sioux City, that I hear no complaints about.  That's why I need more information from the Native Amican population.  Would it be okay if they dropped the Fighting and the logo?

I'm totally confused. Therefore, this is my last post on this issue.

[SD-STATE]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

I don't believe Seminoles is considered a derogatory name, nor is the Irish, they are from Ireland. The term "Fighting" can be debated.

This arugment about "Sioux" has me quite confused. We have a casino that the Native Americans named Dakota Sioux Casino and we have the Sioux River, Sioux Falls, Sioux City, that I hear no complaints about. That's why I need more information from the Native Amican population. Would it be okay if they dropped the Fighting and the logo?

I am not a American Indian nor do I know everything about the subject of offensive mascots and nicknames, but I do feel strongly that if it is the wish of Native Americans that these symbol not be used then those wishes should be respected. Native American tradition proceeds any 80 year U of Illinois, UND, or an Washington NFL team's self thought traditions. As for UND, I do not know if the word "sioux" is the biggest problem that Native Americans have with the university, but the nickname and representations that are associated with it. Florida State, I believe, has expressed and written consent to use "Seminoles" as their nickname and mascot from the Seminole tribe in Florida.

[NightHawk78]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

Column by Nick Coleman in the StarTribune:
http://www.startribune.com/357/story/1014754.html

Here's some dirt on the late Ralphie from an earlier column by Coleman (when he worked for the rival PioneerPress):
http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/coleman.html

As long as Florida State is allowed to keep its nickname, UND will have some ground to stand on in their lawsuit. Just because the leadership of the Seminole people has given its approval, this doesn't mean that the majority of Seminoles approve of it. In addition, what if the Seminoles people in either Florida or Oklahoma would decide in the future that FSU's use of the Seminole was offensive? For all purposes, the current NCAA policy is leaving FSU very vulnerable. The very threat of removing support for the nickname could affect the workings of FSU or even Florida's state government.

I think that UND should re-evaluate its nickname, but that change should not mandated by an organization that gives loopholes/exceptions for its big-name/dollar schools.

[goon]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

Just change it to the Fighting Ralphs and get it over with.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

Just change it to the Fighting Ralphs and get it over with.

This is the best solution! Fighting Ralph's for the men and Fighting Betty's for the women!

At some point the trustees are going to have to go with the NCAA ruling. Right now, Und is held hostage by the agreements made with Englestad. My guess is that they will fight it as far as they can for one of two reasons. First, they will fight it as far as they can and then move to change it bacause they aren't given a choice by the NCAA. Second, they can't afford to make the change when you factor in the removal of the current logos and what the rent factor would be.

If you haven't been in the Englestad Arena, it is hard to imagine how hard it would be to change the logo and/or remove the current logo. IT IS EVERYWHERE! It would cost millions to remove it from everywhere which is what the NCAA would be asking. It's in the marble floor, on the leather seat backs, the walls, the carpet, and I'm sure the locker rooms are unreal.

At a time when they are no doubt trying to raise the money needed for the move to D-1, having this staring them down is a huge obstacle.

SUPERBUNNY

SUPERBUNNY

[juice]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

I don't believe Seminoles is considered a derogatory name, nor is the Irish, they are from Ireland.   The term "Fighting" can be debated.

This arugment about "Sioux" has me quite confused.  We have a casino that the Native Americans named Dakota Sioux Casino and we have the Sioux River, Sioux Falls, Sioux City, that I hear no complaints about.  That's why I need more information from the Native Amican population.  Would it be okay if they dropped the Fighting and the logo?

I am not a American Indian nor do I know everything about the subject of offensive mascots and nicknames, but I do feel strongly that if it is the wish of Native Americans that these symbol not be used then those wishes should be respected. Native American tradition proceeds any 80 year U of Illinois, UND, or an Washington NFL team's self thought traditions.

The problem is that it is not the wish of all Native American's to have these symbol's dropped. In fact UND has some Native American tribe leaders that have come out in support of UND and their mascot. I personally know several Native American's that have adopted pro sports teams with Native American mascots as their favorite teams, just because they have Native American mascots. This didn't surprise me in the least when you consider why someone chooses a mascot. We just happen to often hear from the radical's that take offense to school's that have Native American mascots.

I also don't think that the term Sioux is deragatory to Native Americans or comparable to the N word. I work with a lot of Native American's who, when asked, will say they belong to the Sioux tribe.

[SD-STATE]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

The problem is that it is not the wish of all Native American's to have these symbol's dropped. In fact UND has some Native American tribe leaders that have come out in support of UND and their mascot. I personally know several Native American's that have adopted pro sports teams with Native American mascots as their favorite teams, just because they have Native American mascots. This didn't surprise me in the least when you consider why someone chooses a mascot. We just happen to often hear from the radical's that take offense to school's that have Native American mascots.

Some might be a key word. I certainly do not know the exact numbers, but it seems that it is a majority opinion and not just a vocal minority group. There are some groups that do support Native American mascots, because it benefits them financially. The problem is that situation often rests on the whim of whether or not the media feels like giving it some press time or not. I always say, when in doubt, take the higher road.

[West_River_Jack]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

A Native American former coworker went on to UND after she quit working at our place.  I ran into her a couple of years after she left and she was wearing a UND green jacket with the entire back covered by the UND logo so I asked her opinion on the controversies.  She said she thought it was silly and had no complaints about the use of the nickname or the logo.  She was not in a position to benefit in any way from UND's use of these.  Take this for what it is worth . . . one person's opinion.

[JackJD]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

Here's a link to an AP story on ESPN's website (4/19/07) re: the ongoing NCAA and UND nickname/mascot dispute:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/...=NCAAHeadlines


"GRAND FORKS, N.D. -- Judge Lawrence Jahnke set the tone for a hearing on the University of North Dakota nickname lawsuit when he told lawyers to get a handle on fees that "are rapidly spinning out of control."
...
Jahnke then limited each side to 15 minutes to discuss a motion by UND to deny NCAA requests for information involving correspondence with the family of the late Ralph Engelstad, a UND benefactor, and information on American Indian programs on campus, contact with local Indian tribes and dealings between UND and the federal Office of Civil Rights."

[BTownJack]

Re: UND logo (aka The Logo That Dare Not Be Seen)

A new development on this:

From the Argus via the AP -

Board could take up N.D. nickname issue soon
By Associated Press
Comment Print Email PUBLISHED: November 29, 2007

GRAND FORKS, N.D. – The president of the North Dakota Board of Higher Education says he will bring the issue of the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux nickname to the board soon, since discussions with tribal officials likely will not lead to their support.

Board President John Q. Paulsen would not say whether he will ask for a motion to retire the nickname.

“Anything is on the table,” he said. “Board members are free to do what they want to do.”

The issue could come up as soon as next week, when the board has scheduled three meetings.

Paulsen said his decision to bring up the matter stems from the “continued and determined” opposition to the nickname by officials of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe.

(read more)