Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

Looking at aggregate data is not the best way to determine the merits of an individual discrimination case.

A claim was that AJ was denied opportunities based on his race and sex. No numbers, sources, anything given.

A more general claim was made that Universities are "pressure[d] to have more women ... as coaches." One would hypothesize that due to this perceived pressure, the number of women coaches would be trending with that pressure. The numbers say otherwise. I make no claim on individual cases. I offer no opinion on whether there should be more or fewer female coaches. My problem is with people who make wide reaching claims on our culture/society based on their own perceptions (example of perception: Universities are pressured to higher more female coaches due to Title XI [side-note: read Title IX and look for the section on coaches - I'll wait]), when those perceptions have little to no basis in reality.

If someone still believes that the odds are stacked against male coaches when the percentage of male coaches continues to rise, and the people hiring coaches are predominately male (the numbers indisputably show those things) ... well, there's nothing else for me to say.

[filbert]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

Yet there are fewer women basketball coaches than there were 10 years ago.

You seem to be implying that you have some kind of visibility into the motivations and desires of all possible women's basketball coaching candidates and those who hire them, so that you can judge with precision why female coaches as a group do or do not remain, do or do not succeed in the field.

Personally, this seems to be rather . . . ambitious.

You may want to consider (as everyone who wanders into this particular sociological minefield should consider) that your biases and pre-conceptions may be preventing a complete understanding of the issue.

For instance, there is recent research into the "gender gap" of disparate pay between males and females which seems to indicate that the pay differential is due in large part to the career decisions of females. This does not mean that discrimination - - - both ways - - - does not occur. Of course it does. Always has. Always will.

Humans discriminate.

Period.

The only thing at issue is exactly HOW people discriminate . . . individually, and as a society.

I would submit that many of the general assumptions commonly made regarding both "Discrimination" and discrimination are to a greater or lesser extent flawed.

Including yours. Including mine.

We are perhaps wandering somewhat far afield for a sports discussion board. Anybody know a good sociology board?

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

You seem to be implying that you have some kind of visibility into the motivations and desires of all possible women's basketball coaching candidates and those who hire them, so that you can judge with precision why female coaches as a group do or do not remain, do or do not succeed in the field.

Personally, this seems to be rather . . . ambitious.

You may want to consider (as everyone who wanders into this particular sociological minefield should consider) that your biases and pre-conceptions may be preventing a complete understanding of the issue.

For instance, there is recent research into the "gender gap" of disparate pay between males and females which seems to indicate that the pay differential is due in large part to the career decisions of females. This does not mean that discrimination - - - both ways - - - does not occur. Of course it does. Always has. Always will.

Humans discriminate.

Period.

The only thing at issue is exactly HOW people discriminate . . . individually, and as a society.

I would submit that many of the general assumptions commonly made regarding both "Discrimination" and discrimination are to a greater or lesser extent flawed.

Including yours. Including mine.

We are perhaps wandering somewhat far afield for a sports discussion board. Anybody know a good sociology board?

You seem to have read a lot more into my post than what was actually there. "So that you can judge with precision why female coaches as a group do or do not remain, do or do not succeed in the field." <-- I'm not sure where that came from, but I never even made any claim about women succeeding or not succeeding. My only comments thus far have been about how I don't believe that men, as a whole, are discriminated against in the hiring process in the coaching field. By me saying that there are fewer women coaches (a fact) DOES NOT mean I believe that women, as a whole, are discriminated against. If you read that based on me just stating that there are fewer women coaches than there used to be ... well, like I said, you read more into my post than there actually was.

I'll repeat what I said in the post that I was typing out as (I assume) you typed out your post:

I make no claim on individual cases. I offer no opinion on whether there should be more or fewer female coaches. My problem is with people who make wide reaching claims on our culture/society based on their own perceptions (example of perception: Universities are pressured to higher more female coaches due to Title XI [side-note: read Title IX and look for the section on coaches - I'll wait]), when those perceptions have little to no basis in reality.

My only claim is that the this perceived disadvantage that men face (I remind you that the original poster that I replied to claimed that universities were pressured by Title IX to hire female coaches) is not backed up by numbers.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

You seem to be implying that you have some kind of visibility into the motivations and desires of all possible women's basketball coaching candidates and those who hire them, so that you can judge with precision why female coaches as a group do or do not remain, do or do not succeed in the field.

Personally, this seems to be rather . . . ambitious.

You may want to consider (as everyone who wanders into this particular sociological minefield should consider) that your biases and pre-conceptions may be preventing a complete understanding of the issue.

For instance, there is recent research into the "gender gap" of disparate pay between males and females which seems to indicate that the pay differential is due in large part to the career decisions of females. This does not mean that discrimination - - - both ways - - - does not occur. Of course it does. Always has. Always will.

Humans discriminate.

Period.

The only thing at issue is exactly HOW people discriminate . . . individually, and as a society.

I would submit that many of the general assumptions commonly made regarding both "Discrimination" and discrimination are to a greater or lesser extent flawed.

Including yours. Including mine.

We are perhaps wandering somewhat far afield for a sports discussion board. Anybody know a good sociology board?

Must spread rep.

[filbert]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

My only claim is that the this perceived disadvantage that men face (I remind you that the original poster that I replied to claimed that universities were pressured by Title IX to hire female coaches) is not backed up by numbers.

And my (first) point is that in making this assertion you have embedded a wide range of prior assumptions which have not been demonstrated and which therefore are not necessarily true.

My major point is that no useful, meaningful conclusion can be drawn from the mere fact that "more men are coaching women's teams than previously".

We can speculate why, and there are those who would find this intellectual exercise entertaining in its own right.

You may also consider the reverse just as easily . . . there is certainly ample anecdotal evidence for instance, that universities, particularly, emphasize things like "minorities and females are encouraged to apply" and similar statements in their hiring processes, and you could make the assertion that those policies do in fact have an impact on hiring decisions. Now, I do not know (for I haven't gone to look) of any rigorous studies of the efficacy of those hiring policies on hiring decisions.

Basically, I counsel against "confirmation bias."

[filbert]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

Must spread rep.

Give some to RabbitObsessed. I probably chirped at him way, way more vigorously than he probably deserved.

I'm just on a big "confirmation bias" kick. I don't recommend that sort of thing for those with high blood pressure, though.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

And my (first) point is that in making this assertion you have embedded a wide range of prior assumptions which have not been demonstrated and which therefore are not necessarily true.

My major point is that no useful, meaningful conclusion can be drawn from the mere fact that "more men are coaching women's teams than previously".

We can speculate why, and there are those who would find this intellectual exercise entertaining in its own right.

You may also consider the reverse just as easily . . . there is certainly ample anecdotal evidence for instance, that universities, particularly, emphasize things like "minorities and females are encouraged to apply" and similar statements in their hiring processes, and you could make the assertion that those policies do in fact have an impact on hiring decisions. Now, I do not know (for I haven't gone to look) of any rigorous studies of the efficacy of those hiring policies on hiring decisions.

Basically, I counsel against "confirmation bias."

I still don't think we're on the same page, but that's fine.

That both you and SFRF want to point out the flaws and fallacies used in my argument is fine. I enjoy a good back and forth online. If this were during my early stages on this board I'd probably go on and on and on and on, and eventually say something stupid. I now lack the time, which is probably a good thing. What strikes me as somewhat noteworthy is that neither of you felt the need to respond to the flaws of SUPERBUNNY's argument. Why respond to my arguments, and not his? I'd assert that it's because what SUPERBUNNY claimed (without any evidence) confirms your own biases and prior opinions/personal experiences

I'll refrain from continuing, as I doubt either of us will convince the other. Thanks for the back and forth.

[filbert]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

I still don't think we're on the same page, but that's fine.

That both you and SFRF want to point out the flaws and fallacies used in my argument is fine. I enjoy a good back and forth online. If this were during my early stages on this board I'd probably go on and on and on and on, and eventually say something stupid. I now lack the time, which is probably a good thing. What strikes me as somewhat noteworthy is that neither of you felt the need to respond to the flaws of SUPERBUNNY's argument. Why respond to my arguments, and not his? I'd assert that it's because what SUPERBUNNY claimed (without any evidence) confirms your own biases and prior opinions/personal experiences

I'll refrain from continuing, as I doubt either of us will convince the other. Thanks for the back and forth.

Oh, yes, certainly, there's plenty of confirmation bias to go around for everyone!

Have a good night!

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

all these big long threads have really upset my sensitivities and i must now retreat into my safe zone. nananananana.

[filbert]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

all these big long threads have really upset my sensitivities and i must now retreat into my safe zone. nananananana.

I feel microaggressed by this post.

[jackmd]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

Sure there has been a lot of attention to the hiring of Williams for the UNL job, but I don't believe it has been any more than other similar stories out of both schools. I think quite a bit of the fascination with Amy's new job is the fact it is Nebraska. There are quite a few Husker fans in our region and these stories are of interest to them as well. Coach Nagy going to Wright State isn't going to generate the same type of interest for any other reader (fan) base. I know the Argus has had at least 5 stories on Nagy/new coach search while they have had 3 on Williams. They P&D has always ran with more USD stories so that won't surprise anyone.

I would also have to say that some of Doc's feelings of too much coverage on this may also lie with the Jackrabbit ties. I know that when Nate Wolters graduated and was preparing for the NBA draft, there seemed to be (to a Coyote fan) a few more stories than were necessary. Again however, that may have more to do with my allegiance to the Yotes.

I had some sour grapes with breakfast that morning. The coverage is fine and should be expected. It's nice to see more stories about both DI universities in the local paper. P&D sports writers deserve credit for that.

[SanDakotaState]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

It's been a week since Williams took the Nebraska job. An announcement for her replacement should happen any day now.

[goon]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

It's been a week since Williams took the Nebraska job. An announcement for her replacement should happen any day now.

was there a list of names on the short list? sort of surprised one of the assistants didnt try to keep their name in the ring.

[SanDakotaState]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

was there a list of names on the short list? sort of surprised one of the assistants didnt try to keep their name in the ring.

Not that I know of, just some local non-D1 coaches.

That's the thing with women's basketball. Not a whole lot of information is out there.

[joeboo22]

Re: Yori out at Nebraska, under investigation

Not that I know of, just some local non-D1 coaches.

That's the thing with women's basketball. Not a whole lot of information is out there.

I'm guessing all area non D-I Head Coaches (NAIA, D-II), some Power 5 assistants. Salary isn't terrible for a women's job, and facilities are nice, but team will need rebuilding and no current assistants staying also hurts its appeal a little bit.