Fired Coaches

[bigticket1]

Re: Fired Coaches

So,they fired Tubby and might hire a guy that has exactly one year experience as a head coach? That sounds like something the Gophers would do.

All the national commentators who are outraged over Tubby should be forced to go back and watch the entire season of Gopher basketball. A team that went from 15-1 and ranked 8th nationally to being seeded 9th in the B1G tournament and receiving no votes in the national polls. Teams that won only around 30 % of their games from February on in his 6 seasons with the Gophers. And it was painful to watch Tubby try to express himself in explaining what was wrong. Tubby is a Hall of Fame coach whose time has passed. On the new hire - I would have liked Flip , but it wasn't meant to be. I don't know how the Pitino hire will work out , but someone young and passionate is what the program needs. The AD does have some history in hiring assistants with little/no head coaching experience while at VCU. He hired two - one was Anthony Grant who is now at Alabama and the other was some kid named Shaka. Hopefully this hire will have that kind of results.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Fired Coaches

There's zero information about his dad, and the only information on his mom is that she's a "Head plant manager for a Ford plant in New Jersey".

Well, here's the deal on that. There are no Ford plants in Jersey. There hasn't been a Ford plant in Jersey since February of 2004.

Maybe mom dipped into her severance package from Ford (Ford has paid up to $130k in one-time severance to UAW workers; white collar workers get considerably less) and gave her kid $30k to spend on jewelry, but I'm not buying that anymore than I'm buying Cam Newton's claim that he had no idea his dad was trying to sell him to Mississippi State.

And even if this kid's mom was bright enough to have an extremely difficult job at Ford, but stupid enough to give her kid $30k cash, waiving all that, do you think that programs at this level are run so tightly that things like what went on at Miami and Ohio State and USC and North Carolina are the exceptions rather than the rule? Do you honestly believe that Duke has been run 'cleanly' because they've never been caught? Shoot. I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in ten years. Would you believe me if I told you I haven't sped once in that period?

I mean, what basis is there to look at BCS level college athletics with anything other than a cynical and jaundiced eye? Check out this item that just broke: http://espn.go.com/college-football/...cording-report

You want top notch players at Minnesota, you have to be willing to break all the rules that are being broken everywhere else. And I wonder if Minny boosters and admins are aware of how much cheating it takes to win. Shoot. They should be. Their last Final Four appearance was during the Haskins era.

I believe the $30,000 was only a downpayment as well for a much more expensive piece of jewelry. Hence why the issue was even brought to light, the jeweler didn't get paid for the rest and sued. In regards to the NCAA, did the jeweler give a "loan" to the player because he played at Duke and was a pro prospect?

Regardless, cheating in the NCAA eyes goes on everywhere. Do any reasonable person think no SDSU player has ever gotten a free cheeseburger or haircut? That's a paddlin' in the NCAA.

[Nidaros]

Re: Fired Coaches

I'm guessing even SDSU and USD have gotten away with some things and they don't have a budget to do much with.

Joe, you need to elaborate on this comment. You know something I dont know, but details please.

[OldHare]

Re: Fired Coaches

One thing about the SDSU coaches-we probably do not pay anyone enough to cheat!! The other residual detail might be that smaller communities have been notorious for knowing more about their neighbors which has some influence. For the time being, I will assume we have coaches that promise only the things that are permitted.

[witness]

Re: Fired Coaches

Personally I think the Richard Pitino hire could be a very good hire and it has nothing to do with his name. In his first year at FIU he lead them to their first winning season in 13yrs and within one basket of making the NCAA tournament. He was 18-14 this last year and 11-9 in conference. The three years prior they won a combined 26 games and won 8 games the year before Richard Pitino came to FIU. Could be a genius hire for Minnesota.

[TK22867]

Re: Fired Coaches

Some of you need to get over the fact that some programs are CLEAN. Not everyone cheats, not even everyone in the SEC. Some programs flat out suck, and they cheat to try and recruit better and bridge the talent gap. Don't lump Duke and other schools into the cheating realm just because they are consistently good year after year. Maybe they are good because they can offer a great coach, fantastic college arena atmosphere, a chance at a National Title every year, and excellent faciliites. Oh yeah, did I mention you can get a FREE, TOP-NOTCH EDUCATION? Calling everyone cheaters is just sour grapes from a jaded fan.

IMO, calling out a cheating program requires a burden of proof or "source" just like the lashing I took for my comments on Prince in another thread.

Regarding the Lance Thomas situation, he is free to obtain credit just like anyone else. Questioning where he got the $30,000 for a downpayment? I will ask the same question of you next time you put a down payment on a car, because I have a right to know where your money comes from.

Would I have liked to have seen Flip hired in Minny? Sure, but he wanted to bring his son along and the admin said no. Can you really blame them after the Saul Smith fiasco? I side firmly with the admin in that decision.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Fired Coaches

Some of you need to get over the fact that some programs are CLEAN. Not everyone cheats, not even everyone in the SEC. Some programs flat out suck, and they cheat to try and recruit better and bridge the talent gap. Don't lump Duke and other schools into the cheating realm just because they are consistently good year after year. Maybe they are good because they can offer a great coach, fantastic college arena atmosphere, a chance at a National Title every year, and excellent faciliites. Oh yeah, did I mention you can get a FREE, TOP-NOTCH EDUCATION? Calling everyone cheaters is just sour grapes from a jaded fan.

IMO, calling out a cheating program requires a burden of proof or "source" just like the lashing I took for my comments on Prince in another thread.

Regarding the Lance Thomas situation, he is free to obtain credit just like anyone else. Questioning where he got the $30,000 for a downpayment? I will ask the same question of you next time you put a down payment on a car, because I have a right to know where your money comes from.

Would I have liked to have seen Flip hired in Minny? Sure, but he wanted to bring his son along and the admin said no. Can you really blame them after the Saul Smith fiasco? I side firmly with the admin in that decision.

Everybody cheats, or at least breaks the rules. Most of the time its unintentional though.

Thomas very likely did not obtain credit just like anyone else (credit check, ability to pay, etc). A $67,000 loan on the basis of being a Duke basketball player with a future career in the NBA would most definitely be an NCAA violation. No question. I doubt Coach K knew about it, but that wouldn't make it any less of a violation.

Thomas settled his lawsuit so nobody with direct knowledge will be talking to the NCAA. Poof, NCAA investigation over before it begins.

Part of the initial scandal that eventually led to the vacated final fours at Michigan was the fact that a booster bought a player a birthday cake. Two separate investigations in 1997 failed to uncover any major violations.

Maybe cheating is the wrong word, but I don't think there is an athletic department in the nation that hasn't had players break NCAA rules (SDSU included).

[zooropa]

Re: Fired Coaches

Don't lump Duke and other schools into the cheating realm just because they are consistently good year after year.

I'm not lumping them into the 'cheating realm' because they're good.

I'm doing it because of how much money runs through and around that department and those players.

Also, failure to get caught is pretty meaningless when the NCAA's investigative method, in sum, is "Please incriminate yourself" and when the consequences of getting caught pale in comparison to the rewards for cheating (Mulkey cheats, gets Griner, goes 40-0, ends up in a record book, gets caught, gets grounded for a month). The NCAA's revenue sports are positively dripping with moral hazard.

Understand: I'm not saying that only the good programs cheat, or that all programs cheat equally. I am saying that only a fool would look at the negative test results and say that Barry Bonds wasn't using steroids---oh wait----I mean, only a fool would look at Duke's lack of infractions and say that there's no cheating going on there.

[witness]

Re: Fired Coaches

I'm not lumping them into the 'cheating realm' because they're good.I'm doing it because of how much money runs through and around that department and those players.Also, failure to get caught is pretty meaningless when the NCAA's investigative method, in sum, is "Please incriminate yourself" and when the consequences of getting caught pale in comparison to the rewards for cheating (Mulkey cheats, gets Griner, goes 40-0, ends up in a record book, gets caught, gets grounded for a month). The NCAA's revenue sports are positively dripping with moral hazard.Understand: I'm not saying that only the good programs cheat, or that all programs cheat equally. I am saying that only a fool would look at the negative test results and say that Barry Bonds wasn't using steroids---oh wait----I mean, only a fool would look at Duke's lack of infractions and say that there's no cheating going on there.

They who talk the most have the least to say

[Nidaros]

Re: Fired Coaches

Everybody cheats, or at least breaks the rules. Most of the time its unintentional though.

Thomas very likely did not obtain credit just like anyone else (credit check, ability to pay, etc). A $67,000 loan on the basis of being a Duke basketball player with a future career in the NBA would most definitely be an NCAA violation. No question. I doubt Coach K knew about it, but that wouldn't make it any less of a violation.

Thomas settled his lawsuit so nobody with direct knowledge will be talking to the NCAA. Poof, NCAA investigation over before it begins.

Part of the initial scandal that eventually led to the vacated final fours at Michigan was the fact that a booster bought a player a birthday cake. Two separate investigations in 1997 failed to uncover any major violations.

Maybe cheating is the wrong word, but I don't think there is an athletic department in the nation that hasn't had players break NCAA rules (SDSU included).

Do you have a few one hundred dollar bills to slip under the dorm room of ZZ for each game he gets 100 yards in rushing? I throw this an example of what goes on in the SEC. Its did happen back when Bo Jackson was playing. Who is Bo, well he played in mid 1980's and was a very big man on campus. In these cases the violations were clearly intentional. I just dont think SDSU has had this kind of scandal except for one incident, many years ago when many of the NCAA rules were not clear. I rather not discuss this on the board, but by and large all the AD's and coaches have very carefull about following the rules and regs.
Kathy Heylens deserves a great amount of credit in her compliance work, and she has kept us out of trouble many many times.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Fired Coaches

Do you have a few one hundred dollar bills to slip under the dorm room of ZZ for each game he gets 100 yards in rushing? I throw this an example of what goes on in the SEC. Its did happen back when Bo Jackson was playing. Who is Bo, well he played in mid 1980's and was a very big man on campus. In these cases the violations were clearly intentional. I just dont think SDSU has had this kind of scandal except for one incident, many years ago when many of the NCAA rules were not clear. I rather not discuss this on the board, but by and large all the AD's and coaches have very carefull about following the rules and regs.
Kathy Heylens deserves a great amount of credit in her compliance work, and she has kept us out of trouble many many times.

I think the NCAA rules are pretty ridiculous. It really isn't possible to be 100% compliant.

The vast majority of the time, no official at the university knows about the violations while they are occurring. It isn't possible to police all the student athletes and boosters during the recruiting process or playing career. The best they can do is educate and make sure the seriousness of violations are understood by all parties. I too believe most AD's and coaches are on the up and up.

[zooropa]

Re: Fired Coaches

They who talk the most have the least to say

Oh, that certainly proves that all of the millions of dollars that swirl around Duke basketball are handled properly, and that the student athletes on the team see nothing more than the pittance that the NCAA allows them.

[jackmd]

Re: Fired Coaches

I think the NCAA rules are pretty ridiculous. It really isn't possible to be 100% compliant.

The vast majority of the time, no official at the university knows about the violations while they are occurring. It isn't possible to police all the student athletes and boosters during the recruiting process or playing career. The best they can do is educate and make sure the seriousness of violations are understood by all parties. I too believe most AD's and coaches are on the up and up.

I listen to Tony Kornheiser via podcast almost everyday. He had a son that played college golf. He wanted to have the golf team over to his home for supper (something parents often do). He felt compelled to contact the AD to make sure that would be okay with the NCAA. The AD reported that he didn't think the NCAA would investigate something like this as long as it was infrequent and included a reasonable meal, nothing to extravagant and that it didn't include potential future student athlete recruits. Tony feels like he probably violated some NCAA rule.

I have "provided" plenty of free food and even beverages to current student athletes and recruits and their families in the tailgate over the last 7 years. Is that a violation?

[TK22867]

Re: Fired Coaches

This thread is turning into a complete joke. Some of you are making wild accusations of every program in the NCAA "cheating" without offering any evidence that they are doing so.

You are, in short, rumor mongering in the very worst way which is unfair to these other programs and uncalled for. If there is anybody that needs their hands slapped by the moderators, it's you guys.

There is a difference between flat-out "cheating" and unknowingly breaking minor NCAA rules because there are so damn many. In general, those schools that unknowingly break rules self-report to the NCAA once it is brought to their attention and if minor in nature just go away.

I have no problems controlling the "millions of dollars" that float around my company from project to project and guaranteeing there is no cheating of the system going on. Yes, it can be done, and is done everyday by people like me.

And with that, I'm done with this topic.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Fired Coaches

This thread is turning into a complete joke. Some of you are making wild accusations of every program in the NCAA "cheating" without offering any evidence that they are doing so.

You are, in short, rumor mongering in the very worst way which is unfair to these other programs and uncalled for. If there is anybody that needs their hands slapped by the moderators, it's you guys.

There is a difference between flat-out "cheating" and unknowingly breaking minor NCAA rules because there are so damn many. In general, those schools that unknowingly break rules self-report to the NCAA once it is brought to their attention and if minor in nature just go away.

I have no problems controlling the "millions of dollars" that float around my company from project to project and guaranteeing there is no cheating of the system going on. Yes, it can be done, and is done everyday by people like me.

And with that, I'm done with this topic.

Stating published facts isn't rumor mongering.

1-Duke player had $30,000 cash to use as a downpayment
2-High end jeweler with NBA clients loans $67,000 to Duke player
3-The former Duke player doesn't repay the loan
3-Former Duke player settles the lawsuit seeking payment

UMass had their final four revoked for less. Of course, the NCAA could actually conduct an investigation in that instance.