The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

[filbert]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I still think the better strategy for long-term stability for both SDSU and the Summit League is to bring in St. Cloud and Mankato, take a run at stealing UND and UNC from the Big Sky, and essentially get a somewhat larger, D-I version of the NCC back together. Oakland and the Indiana schools more than welcome to remain in the Summit League. League tournament would probably move at some point from Sioux Falls to MSP (and league offices from suburban Chicago to MSP as well).

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

So hypothetical question - if a MVC invite comes for SDSU, does the administration have any second thought about bolting the Summit knowing that the conference tournament in the Summit is almost a lock for Sioux Falls for the foreseeable future (definitely an advantage in making the NCAA tourney and a rallying event for support of SDSU Athletics by fans and alums)? Never say never I guess, but I would find it hard to see the MVC tourney ever leaving St. Louis and coming our way.

Second hypothetical question - as a fan what do you choose? A Creightonless MVC which brings a higher conference profile than the current Summit and a better overall conference schedule on a year to year basis? Or a little bit worse conference group by staying in the Summit but knowing you'll get to watch the conference tourney in your backyard for the next X number of years?

Not to say attending the conference tourney in some other location (St. Louis, Omaha, MSP) wouldn't be a blast, but definitely not as convenient for many and not nearly the advantage that Sioux Falls brings for SDSU.

[jackrabit1]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

i still think the better strategy for long-term stability for both sdsu and the summit league is to bring in st. Cloud and mankato, take a run at stealing und and unc from the big sky, and essentially get a somewhat larger, d-i version of the ncc back together. Oakland and the indiana schools more than welcome to remain in the summit league. League tournament would probably move at some point from sioux falls to msp (and league offices from suburban chicago to msp as well).

ncc 2.0!

[Evolution Prime]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I still think the better strategy for long-term stability for both SDSU and the Summit League is to bring in St. Cloud and Mankato, take a run at stealing UND and UNC from the Big Sky, and essentially get a somewhat larger, D-I version of the NCC back together. Oakland and the Indiana schools more than welcome to remain in the Summit League. League tournament would probably move at some point from Sioux Falls to MSP (and league offices from suburban Chicago to MSP as well).

My thinking as well, though I would prefer to go after UND and UNC first before inviting the two Minnesota schools. I'm not sure how the tournament would fare in Minneapolis as that B1G city and more or less having a "small time" tournament may or may not be supported well from those who don't have a rooting interest. Minneapolis would probably be a better fit than Chicago if all of this happens, but I would prefer Sioux Falls because I'm greedy like that.

As for the other questions, the MVC will definitely be a more well known and recognized name and be a step up from the Summit, but not that huge of a step up without Creighton. What is left is UNI and Wichita State with ISU-b and Drake stepping up once and a while. I do think that Creighton leaving will hurt their reputation a bit as strong mid-major. I think we would need some upgrades in baseketball facilities to be attractive to the MVC at this point. I think the MVC will still balance the power between private and public schools and invite a private school to replace Creighton. I don't see them expanding beyond 10 teams unless that philosophy changes.

I would much rather continue to bring up a strong base in the Summit than be conference hopping which seems to be the norm these days. The addition of those schools would help solidify that. We don't have a lot of options due to our geography. We should make the best of what we have now. However, if a Summit collapes is imminent, then we need to do what is best for us.

[jack power]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

Second hypothetical question - as a fan what do you choose? A Creightonless MVC which brings a higher conference profile than the current Summit and a better overall conference schedule on a year to year basis? Or a little bit worse conference group by staying in the Summit but knowing you'll get to watch the conference tourney in your backyard for the next X number of years?

Not to say attending the conference tourney in some other location (St. Louis, Omaha, MSP) wouldn't be a blast, but definitely not as convenient for many and not nearly the advantage that Sioux Falls brings for SDSU.

I would vote for joining the MVC-no hesitation. It's a higher profile league,and i have no problem going to St.Louis every year for the mens tournament.

[FargoBison]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

The MVC has a great brand, the Summit has absolutely no brand. Getting into the MVC would help a lot in recruiting and scheduling, probably would also create some new opportunities for TV exposure as well.

Plus I really would like to see all the sports in one conference, that would help build rivalries.

[filbert]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

The MVC has a great brand, the Summit has absolutely no brand. Getting into the MVC would help a lot in recruiting and scheduling, probably would also create some new opportunities for TV exposure as well.

Plus I really would like to see all the sports in one conference, that would help build rivalries.

If any Summit League member gets an invite to the Valley in the next couple of years, they're undoubtedly gone. But I have serious doubts that the Valley would be more stable medium- and long-term than a D-I, upgraded NCC.

[Evolution Prime]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

The MVC has a great brand, the Summit has absolutely no brand.

I think you can say that for about half the conferences. The only conferences I see on having a "brand" are the B1G, Big XII, SEC, ACC, Big East, C-USA, MWC, MVC, and A-10. You could make an arguement for Horizon and the WCC (and maybe the OVC). Ivy League is also unique. Other than that, none of the other conferences have any. WAC is going to lose theirs within a couple years. I would much rather build it up to have its own brand and the xDSUs be the driving force behind that.

Now I'm not advocating that we turn down and invitiation, but that invitation would need to be given in the next couple of years. The MVC could be the mid-major Big East where their schools start getting pick-up by higher profile conferences. I think with some key additions, the Summit could become a very stable conference, as was the NCC for the most part. Our geography is going to dictate that. We are to far west for some eastern teams and too far east for some western teams. I would like to see this as a stable conference instead of a transitional/stepping-stone conference. Let the WAC be that conference.

[FargoBison]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I just see the MVC as being a place where NDSU can grow and raise itself up to another level. A DI NCC just sounds like being stuck in neutral, and I loathe the idea of being stuck with a bunch of hockey schools again. Hopefully it doesn't have to come to that.

[OldHare]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I think that an upgraded ncc 2.0 with the teams playing at D1 level with better teams is infinitely better than where the WAC 2.0 is headed. While everyone is waiting for another conference to call and make them feel good about themselves, the Summit is doing a reasonable job of building a decent lineup.

ncc 2.0!

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I just see the MVC as being a place where NDSU can grow and raise itself up to another level. A DI NCC just sounds like being stuck in neutral, and I loathe the idea of being stuck with a bunch of hockey schools again. Hopefully it doesn't have to come to that.

I don't like the idea of a re-done DI NCC. Everytime Filbert suggests that I cringe! I like the idea of moving upward and think the MVC is a step in the right direction. I worry redoing the NCC per-se would be exactly like being stuck in neutral.

[filbert]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I just see the MVC as being a place where NDSU can grow and raise itself up to another level. A DI NCC just sounds like being stuck in neutral, and I loathe the idea of being stuck with a bunch of hockey schools again. Hopefully it doesn't have to come to that.

I'm afraid you're kinda in the wrong part of the country for this attitude to be perfectly reasonable, IMHO . . .

On the other hand, it's pretty much the same attitude the Catholic Seven--er--New Big East--have for football schools, so there is that.

Ideally, the FCS schools of the Valley/Summit/Horizon would get together in an all-sports league, and the non-football Valley/Summit/Horizon schools get together in another all-sports league or two. But as I've noticed on other occasions, it's an imperfect world. As such, a more stable Summit League (even if it looked a lot like NCC 2.0) would be preferable to a suddenly-not-so-stable post-Creighton MVC where the non-football schools are ever more earnestly eyeing the possible exits . . .

[joeboo22]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

As long as the NCC 2.0/ Summit League teams have programs willing to be D-I both on the court/field and in the classroom I don't really care who is part of the conference. UNO, USD, XDSU's, UNC have been as successful as can be since going D-I. USD has been far from a role over, UNO has competed well in both basketball programs this year, facilities seem to be getting on the right track, the XDSU's and UNC have made the tournament in men's basketball. UND seems to finally have some things figured out, being fairly successful this year in men's hoops.

I'm not sure on Northern Colorado's bball facilities, but SDSU's is quality, NDSU's and USD's will be quality when finished/renovated, UNO's seems nice and I think they will move on campus soon, UND's is nice. Its not as if they are playing in D-II arena's.

As for scheduling, I don't think the conference next to your name has much to do with scheduling, maybe a little bit as it seems some conferences seem to get along better with others. But from my understanding it comes down to money, and then more money, and then ultimately competition/facilities. If SDSU wants to get better games at home, then they have to be willing to spend more money to get them.

[Evolution Prime]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I just see the MVC as being a place where NDSU can grow and raise itself up to another level. A DI NCC just sounds like being stuck in neutral, and I loathe the idea of being stuck with a bunch of hockey schools again. Hopefully it doesn't have to come to that.

Oh I agree on your points about the MVC (good growth, recognized brand, all sports under one banner). If you disregard the two Minnesota schools being added, I think UND and UNC would be great addition. I know UND has teh hockies, but they have shown some improvement in basketball anc could continue to improve. UNC had some recent success in the basketball area. UNC would be a good travel partner for Denver, which would hopefully keep them in the league since they are good at basketball as well. Plus both would help out Summit baseball be more stable.

Who knows if the MVC wants either or both of us anyway. The feeling I get is that they would want to add a private non-football school. On top of that, they would like someone with a track record of success and that keeps the stature of their conference. Neither one of us don't fill that role. Yes we both have success since moving DI but its a short history. Who knows what the MVC looks like anyways in a couple years. CUSA could continue to get raided from the "Big East" which in turn may raid the MVC for teams like Wichita State and UNI. After that, it looks fairly pedestrian. Nothing that we have not seen in ORU or Oakland. I think the only thing they have going for them then is their name. Would it even be worth it then? I just think it would be prudent to wait to see what happens after the dust settles. If the MVC remains largely unchanged (i.e. UNI and WSU still members) and we then get an invite, jump at the chance. Otherwise, it could just end up being a lateral move. Just look at the "Big East"/CUSA for an example.

[FargoBison]

Re: The Catholic Seven leave the Big East

I don't think I'm really wrong to have that attitude, I see no value in NDSU being in a conference with a bunch of schools that place hockey above everything else. We wasted decades being in the wrong conference before, the NCC schools did us a favor by not wanting to move to DI together.

I'd like to see most of the MVFC schools team up, that is what I want to see happen. Perhaps even with the goal of eventually moving to the FBS together if that is what some schools want.

NDSU played UND in men's basketball at the dome this year, I doubt UND had 200 fans there. This is a school that is an hour away and has thousands of alumni in Fargo. I just don't take any of these hockey schools seriously about competing at the DI level outside of Denver. They've at least invested heavily in trying to be successful and it is paying off.

I think UND being successful is more of a testament to the awfulness of the Big Sky.