Joe Paterno Passes

[JackJD]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

In responding to a reporter, the NCAA president said they signed one.

You are correct, JackPower, and I agree with your statement about Penn State having some good administrators in place. Hareball, thanks for the link to the SI article and the consent agreement.

I think the consent document tells us a lot about how Penn State's administration will approach this matter. Some schools would squeal about the sanctions. Some would have questions the NCAA's powers to impose some of the sanctions etc. Penn State's facing it head-on and you have to admire that position.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Current students because transferring after you have been at a program for 2-3 years is counter intuitive and also future student athletes who want an education from Penn State.

There is no way to penalize the school without affecting the players. Are you saying that the University should suffer no formal repercussions?

The players have a TON of options.

By perpetuating a “football first” culture that ultimately enabled serial child sexual abuse to occur, the Pennsylvania State University leadership failed to value and uphold institutional integrity, resulting in a breach of the NCAA constitution and rules. http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/articl...ctions-penn-st

More reading at http://www.ncaa.com/content/penn-sta...PSU president). After a quick reading of articles referenced in the NCAA Constitution, it seems to me that the NCAA was well within their authority to levee these sanctions.

[goon]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

So when Reggie Bush accepted improper benefits the NCAA placed sanctions on USC several years later. That affected current student athletes that had nothing to do with it. No different that what just happened here.

It is differnt bush broke current rules. Ncaa doesn't have rules governing over this type of situation at least that I am aware where they get this much power over criminal cases.

[goon]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

There is no way to penalize the school without affecting the players. Are you saying that the University should suffer no formal repercussions?

The players have a TON of options.



More reading at http://www.ncaa.com/content/penn-sta...PSU president). After a quick reading of articles referenced in the NCAA Constitution, it seems to me that the NCAA was well within their authority to levee these sanctions.

They will be punished but let them be punished throught. Court of law. I don't see how taking away joe pa's wins does anything to help the victims. Its the ncaa wanting to say no program should have complete control yet the ncaa has control with no consquence.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Why were Sandusky's crimes covered up by Penn State? To protect the football program and Paterno's legacy. The actions by the NCAA and the Big Ten are targeted in those areas. Paterno's name has been removed from numerous things, including the Big Ten trophy, and now will be removed from the top of the winningest coaches list. For 14 years, Penn State put their football program ahead of Sandusky's victims. Now, it will probably be about 14 years before Penn State football can return to any sort of national glory. I'm not finding a lot of problems with the NCAA decision. My biggest worry last night was a nightmare situation where the NCAA levied sanctions and Penn State fought them and won. The consent agreement took care of those worries.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Good for the NCAA; **** Penn State.

[bigticket1]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Penn State deserved severe penalties. But let's hope the NCAA becomes a little more pro-active in investigating "lack of institutional control". Where were they when the ESPN investigative report that aired a year or two ago showed that JoePA bullied the Penn State police dept to ignore various sexual and other assault charges against players. And what about lack of control in the power SEC football schools who buy players like Cam Newton,and continually have players on the police blotters charged with assorted major crimes only to show up in the national champioship game. Or,who after staying eligible for 3 or 4 years show up at the NFL combine and can only answer 1 or 2 questions correctly on the intelligence test - do you suppose they took all their own tests and wrote their own papers ? Or allow slime-ball coaches like John Calipari to keep coaching after taking two schools to the Final Four,and leaving town just before probation and the schools forced to vacate their winnings. What are the odds that happens at Kentucky in a year or two ? Will Montana get the same severe penalties for sweeping rape charges against players under the rug ? It's too bad the NCAA can't act until after someone is convicted of a crime,or is dead.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Current students because transferring after you have been at a program for 2-3 years is counter intuitive and also future student athletes who want an education from Penn State.

In that case, Joe Paterno and the Penn State administration should have done more to keep Sandusky from diddling little kids.

Penn State made its bed, now it gets to sleep in it.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

It is differnt bush broke current rules. Ncaa doesn't have rules governing over this type of situation at least that I am aware where they get this much power over criminal cases.

They absolutely have the right to do this. Read some of the articles on the sanctions. They talk about them having the power to do this. Just because the NCAA doesn't have a rule stating, "When an entire athletic department covers up child sex abuse for 14 years, do this....." doesn't mean they don't have a "rule" in place.

And the arguement saying don't punish the athletes now because they didn't have anything to do with it is BS. The reason Joe Pa and others covered this up was to protect its football program. The current players have lots of options. The children that Sundusky raped and the administration failed to protect had NO CHOICE.

The fact that PSU signed a consent form shows you they think the sanctions are fair.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Penn State deserved severe penalties. But let's hope the NCAA becomes a little more pro-active in investigating "lack of institutional control". Where were they when the ESPN investigative report that aired a year or two ago showed that JoePA bullied the Penn State police dept to ignore various sexual and other assault charges against players. And what about lack of control in the power SEC football schools who buy players like Cam Newton,and continually have players on the police blotters charged with assorted major crimes only to show up in the national champioship game. Or,who after staying eligible for 3 or 4 years show up at the NFL combine and can only answer 1 or 2 questions correctly on the intelligence test - do you suppose they took all their own tests and wrote their own papers ? Or allow slime-ball coaches like John Calipari to keep coaching after taking two schools to the Final Four,and leaving town just before probation and the schools forced to vacate their winnings. What are the odds that happens at Kentucky in a year or two ? Will Montana get the same severe penalties for sweeping rape charges against players under the rug ? It's too bad the NCAA can't act until after someone is convicted of a crime,or is dead.

Lots of valid points here. Haven't heard much on MT thing lately other than they are being investigate by several entities including the department of justice.

I too would like to see the NCAA be more proactive in preventing these things from happening, but I think that the problem is likely just too big for their staff. College athletics means big money to universities meaning many will do just about anything to win.

[goon]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

They absolutely have the right to do this. Read some of the articles on the sanctions. They talk about them having the power to do this. Just because the NCAA doesn't have a rule stating, "When an entire athletic department covers up child sex abuse for 14 years, do this....." doesn't mean they don't have a "rule" in place.

"And the arguement saying don't punish the athletes now because they didn't have anything to do with it is BS. The reason Joe Pa and others covered this up was to protect its football program. The current players have lots of options. The children that Sundusky raped and the administration failed to protect had NO CHOICE.

The fact that PSU signed a consent form shows you they think the sanctions are fair.

they didnt use their own investigation, I think to many people are wanting swift action and then say Penn state is horrible and deserves to rot too. No, 4 People might have tried to cover it up. There has been no criminal cases yet against these people who are accused. Let the court of law play out. Let the actual real victims sue for damages. And i havent checked but are the 4 who were accused Joe pa the AD and the 2 administrators actually at the school anymore? If they tried to cover it up, then obviously more people must have known something was going on. How does taking away the wins help the victims? its just a show that the ncaa is still more powerful, which what they just said about penn state is football had to much power. now the NCAA says they get absolute power to punish for criminal behavior that has not actaully gone to court. Wait for the victims to deal with penn state.

The rule of paying players, is on the books saying you cant pay players. dealing with criminal charges is very different. Its tought to fine someone for a criminal act when they havent even been arrested or charged for it.

Imagine if Penn state fought the charges, it would look like they dont think they should be punished, then people would jump on the bandwagon to try to shut them down or say they support child molesters, penn state had to take the punishment no matter what just for the court of public opinion.

"The money must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at Penn State." So apparently the NCAA doesnt care about helping future victims of sexual abuse at penn state, the money they are fined are suppose to help sexual abuse victims, but penn state victims are allowed support from the NCAA? Pot meet Kettle. They should have said penn state should also set up a fund that would help sexual abuse victims. That would atleast show the victims of sandusky that they NCAA cares about what happens, with this ruling it just shows they care about having power.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

They will be punished but let them be punished throught. Court of law. I don't see how taking away joe pa's wins does anything to help the victims. Its the ncaa wanting to say no program should have complete control yet the ncaa has control with no consquence.

Seriously?? Paterno will never face punishment through a court of law, that is a fact. I would guess that the events of the last few days have provided at least a small measure of satisfaction to the victims. PSU sanctions and the removal of Paterno's statue is the closest thing they will have to it.

NCAA stands for National Collegiate Athletic ASSOCIATION. The NCAA has power because its member associates (hundreds of colleges across the country, including PSU) have given it authority. There are checks in place as to its control.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

While I am not sure where I stand on the severity of the punishment or the Freeh Report, I do take some issue with the "lack of institutional control" argument people continue to throw out. In reality, there was complete institutional control from the top down here. The president, AD, and Coach Paterno controlled the entire situation to prevent any negative press or damage to the football program. They completely controlled the manner in which they dealt with the situation, even if it is utterly reprehensible.

I do feel sorry for students, faculty, and alumni who will feel the effects of this situation. However, I also agree with the need to break a culture of worship that gave those men who failed to report these crimes a sense that they were above the law and could decide for those children and society in general what punishment Sandusky should receive. Turns out, it was simply early retirement. That gives me the creeps like few other stories ever have.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

they didnt use their own investigation, I think to many people are wanting swift action and then say Penn state is horrible and deserves to rot too. No, 4 People might have tried to cover it up. There has been no criminal cases yet against these people who are accused. Let the court of law play out. Let the actual real victims sue for damages. And i havent checked but are the 4 who were accused Joe pa the AD and the 2 administrators actually at the school anymore? If they tried to cover it up, then obviously more people must have known something was going on. How does taking away the wins help the victims? its just a show that the ncaa is still more powerful, which what they just said about penn state is football had to much power. now the NCAA says they get absolute power to punish for criminal behavior that has not actaully gone to court. Wait for the victims to deal with penn state.

They used Penn State's investigation. In other words, Penn State said "This is what happened." The NCAA took them for their word.

The rule of paying players, is on the books saying you cant pay players. dealing with criminal charges is very different. Its tought to fine someone for a criminal act when they havent even been arrested or charged for it.

Imagine if Penn state fought the charges, it would look like they dont think they should be punished, then people would jump on the bandwagon to try to shut them down or say they support child molesters, penn state had to take the punishment no matter what just for the court of public opinion.

Penn State admitted their guilt to the NCAA via the Freeh report. A bit of the Freeh Report: "In various ways the University's administrative structure, the absence or poor enforcement of policies relating to the protection of children and employee misconduct, and the lack of emphasis on values and ethics-based action created an environment in which Spanier, Schultz, Paterno, and Curley were able to make decisions to avoid the consequences of bad publicity. Standard personnel practices were ignored or undermined by the lack of centralized control over the human resources functions of various departments - most particularly, the Athletic Department."

In other words, PSU displayed an alarming lack of institutional control.

"The money must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at Penn State." So apparently the NCAA doesnt care about helping future victims of sexual abuse at penn state, the money they are fined are suppose to help sexual abuse victims, but penn state victims are allowed support from the NCAA? Pot meet Kettle. They should have said penn state should also set up a fund that would help sexual abuse victims. That would atleast show the victims of sandusky that they NCAA cares about what happens, with this ruling it just shows they care about having power.

The sanctions against PSU were contained punitive and corrective elements. Most of the media focus has been on the punitive (fine, post-season ban, scholarship reductions, etc).

There are multiple sanctions on the corrective side that relate to setting up such programs at Penn State including a requirement to implement all the recommendations of the Freeh Report (Chapter 10). The NCAA is just saying PSU has to use their own money to do it.

[jack power]

Re: Joe Paterno Passes

Penn State accepted the Freeh report, so the NCAA used it. They also said it was more comprehensive than they have ever done.

The NCAA listed several Articles and BY-laws that PSU violated in the consent decree. http://www.ncaa.com/content/penn-state-conclusions. Penn State agreed with them.

Just because the 60 mil is going to an outside program doesn't mean the Sandusky victims can't use it.