Penn State

[jack power]

Re: Penn State

I just got out of a teaching methods class and were told point blank. If in the same situation, do the same thing.

The reasoning is that because we are not trained psychologist and it was second hand that we could put ourselves and the case in jeopardy. The only mistake JoePa and the GA made were not writing down what they saw/heard. And maybe they did.

Paterno did a hell of a lot more wrong than that.Read the Grand Jury report.

BTW, Paterno just got fired.

[jack power]

Re: Penn State

If I ever come upon to the same situation as the GA (walking in on a crime) I will call the police. That is for sure.

I don't know that GA could have left that boy behind.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Penn State

A brilliant career... shame that it ended this way. No one wins in this... not Paterno, not Penn State, and certainly not the victims and not their families.

[Nidaros]

Re: Penn State

There will be no NCAA sanctions, and there shouldn't be.

No I would think there would not be sanctions, but the NCAA has a ton of rules and will no doubt be wondering if any were broken.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Penn State

Paterno did a hell of a lot more wrong than that.Read the Grand Jury report. BTW, Paterno just got fired.

Be careful relying on a grand jury report for proof because that's not what a grand jury indictment is. Look at the Duke Lacrosse situation. Lots of allegations in that grand jury indictment which led to people convicting those guys in the press. Turned out most of it was false. Not saying that is the case here, but its wrong to assume that whatever is said in a grand jury indictment is the absolute fact.

[joeboo22]

Re: Penn State

Paterno did a hell of a lot more wrong than that.Read the Grand Jury report.

BTW, Paterno just got fired.

I did read it. JoePA is mentioned in there for a solid 2 lines? Not a lot, by allowing the coach that witnessed it to remain on staff what message are they sending?

Grandy Jury's are confusing, they take a long time and are 1 sided. I've heard lawyers tell me they could get a grand jury to issue an inditement on anything. It is my understanding and KUlaw can help me on this, but if there was overwelming evidence would they have used a grand jury or issued charges without one? Many times DA's will use Grand Jury's as a prep for the court case, what worked what didn't. At least that is my understanding of the situation.

I'm just reporting what my professor who is well qualified told me.

[jack power]

Re: Penn State

I did read it. JoePA is mentioned in there for a solid 2 lines? Not a lot, by allowing the coach that witnessed it to remain on staff what message are they sending?

Grandy Jury's are confusing, they take a long time and are 1 sided. I've heard lawyers tell me they could get a grand jury to issue an inditement on anything. It is my understanding and KUlaw can help me on this, but if there was overwelming evidence would they have used a grand jury or issued charges without one? Many times DA's will use Grand Jury's as a prep for the court case, what worked what didn't. At least that is my understanding of the situation.

I'm just reporting what my professor who is well qualified told me.

In talking about Paterno, the value of the GJ report is Paterno's testimony and it lays out time lines. If you start connecting dots, you can see what people knew ,including Paterno, and when they knew it.

Again,I'm not saying Paterno did anything legally wrong. IMO, he's morally culpable, tho...

[zooropa]

Re: Penn State

I just got out of a teaching methods class and were told point blank. If in the same situation, do the same thing.

The reasoning is that because we are not trained psychologist and it was second hand that we could put ourselves and the case in jeopardy. The only mistake JoePa and the GA made were not writing down what they saw/heard. And maybe they did.

Then you were told wrong.

If someone comes to you with firsthand evidence of child abuse, tell them to go to the police. That is South Dakota state law. You do NOT pass that evidence on to your superiors, the witness is required by law to pass that information on to the police. Period. End. Of. Story.


I cannot believe that the idiocy of this Pennsylvania law hasn't been mentioned.

The mandatory child abuse reporting statute on the books in South Dakota and Pennsylvania is based on model legislation that requires IMMEDIATE communication of that evidence to law enforcement.

For some bizarre reason, the state of Pennsylvania requires you to pass this information on to your superior.

[zooropa]

Re: Penn State

And WHY is McQUEARY still on staff?

I can understand leaving the scene. I think you display remarkably limited awareness of yourself if you rush to proclaim what you would do in a situation you've never experienced before. Frankly, I don't know what I would've done on the spot.

With some confidence, I can tell you that I would probably talk to someone about what I saw besides the police, so I can't fault the guy for calling his dad.

But I would have a hard time living with myself if I didn't report what I saw to the police. I mean what on EARTH are the police there for, if not because stuff like this happens? It's a vicious world, even in Happy Valley, PA, and the police are there for that reason.

To avoid calling the police after seeing that? It would be like seeing an accident victim and refusing to call the ambulance.

[joeboo22]

Re: Penn State

I'm just stating what I was told, I will bring it up more tomorrow.

The people at Penn State I think look really bad on this. Here is my argument for JoePA and if more comes out that he hid it or purposely dumbed it down then I recind this argument.

Penn State has known about this grand jury for a long time. A newspaper article from April is being floated around, so they knew of it from at least April. The Grand Jury has been visiting for around 3 years from my understanding. If they thought this was bad then they should have told Joe to retire. The indictment was released Saturday, you cancel his press conference where he said he was prepared to answer the questions. Then on Wednesday night you fire him. It is if they didn't give a damn about the situation until the public turned on them. And then by continuing to employ McQueary they make it even more confusing.

There is an article on ESPN.COM from I think Rick Reilly that says there were many people that should have noticed something. From parents to teachers, to other coaches, to yes JoePA, to admin, to others. I think it is unfair to pin this entirely on one guy.

An open letter to parents is that be careful of the adults that are "hanging" around your kids, generally they want something, whether that is money, fame or something worse like this. Many people should have known something.

[zooropa]

Re: Penn State

I'm just stating what I was told, I will bring it up more tomorrow.

My mistake, as this would be in a school environment. However, you would not pass on the report to the principal or the superintendent, the person who had evidence would do that.

However, SDCL 26-8A-3 states that, "Any person who knows or has reason to suspect that a child has been abused or neglected as defined in § 26-8A-2 may report that information as provided in § 26-8A-8."

Which in this instance, I think, would be the necessary course. We're not talking about a kid who suddenly stops participating in class, or who has unexplained bruises, etc., we're talking about a guy who saw felony assault taking place.

[Nidaros]

Re: Penn State

Be careful relying on a grand jury report for proof because that's not what a grand jury indictment is. Look at the Duke Lacrosse situation. Lots of allegations in that grand jury indictment which led to people convicting those guys in the press. Turned out most of it was false. Not saying that is the case here, but its wrong to assume that whatever is said in a grand jury indictment is the absolute fact.

There seems to be a very ugly pattern. I never got past reading about Victim 1, it was so disgusting to read. If one tenth of this is true, its enough to lock up Sandusky for the rest of his life. Sandusky needs Perry Mason and a few other TV lawyers to get him out of this mess in which a perverted passion caused damage to those who were very vulnerable.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Penn State

a great career, most wins in the history of college football, national championships if he had any, countless numbers of players going to the NFL and on to successful careers and all Joe Paterno will be remembered for is his involvment in this affair. at least for the near future. some where down the line maybe his accomplishements will be more important.

[jacks1]

Re: Penn State

Per BlueKeyAlum (Bisonville):

Here's some really weird **** for conspiracy folks to gnaw on.

"One of the questions surrounding the sex-abuse case against Jerry Sandusky is why a former district attorney chose not to prosecute the then-Penn State assistant coach in 1998 after reports surfaced that he had inappropriate interactions with a boy.

The answer is unknowable because of an unsolved mystery: What happened to Ray Gricar, the Centre County, Pa., district attorney?

Gricar went missing in April 2005. The murky circumstances surrounding his disappearance — an abandoned car, a laptop recovered months later in a river without a hard drive, his body was never found — have spawned Web sites, television programs and conspiracy theories. More than six years later, the police still receive tips and reports of sightings. The police in central Pennsylvania continue to investigate even though Gricar’s daughter, Lara, successfully petitioned in July to have her father declared legally dead so the family could find some closure and begin dividing his estate. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...r=3&ref=sports

[Nidaros]

Re: Penn State

Per BlueKeyAlum (Bisonville):

Here's some really weird **** for conspiracy folks to gnaw on.

"One of the questions surrounding the sex-abuse case against Jerry Sandusky is why a former district attorney chose not to prosecute the then-Penn State assistant coach in 1998 after reports surfaced that he had inappropriate interactions with a boy.

The answer is unknowable because of an unsolved mystery: What happened to Ray Gricar, the Centre County, Pa., district attorney?

Gricar went missing in April 2005. The murky circumstances surrounding his disappearance — an abandoned car, a laptop recovered months later in a river without a hard drive, his body was never found — have spawned Web sites, television programs and conspiracy theories. More than six years later, the police still receive tips and reports of sightings. The police in central Pennsylvania continue to investigate even though Gricar’s daughter, Lara, successfully petitioned in July to have her father declared legally dead so the family could find some closure and begin dividing his estate. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...r=3&ref=sports

The plot thickens as they say in drama, it appears Sanducky is possibly capable of murder if it meant keeping his alleged perversion a secret. Where is Angela Landsberry when we really need her?