NCC is gone

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

I would disagree. Lots of thought goes into color photos on section covers.

Meh. I'm not so sure. The editors don't cull the photos to be reviewed. They probably had some underpaid overworked assistant tasked with finding good "rivalry" photos, and of the pictures selected for review that one was probably the 'best' per some bizarre standard (lots of posters, kids dressed the same, etc.), and beyond that no particular thought was given.

It is, at least, a well composed shot, and I'd be surprised if the editorial staff looked much past that.

I'm not that impressed by Stu Whitney, but I doubt that he'd pick such a lousy photo on the basis that it would offend SDSU fans.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: NCC is gone

I'm not that impressed by Stu Whitney, but I doubt that he'd pick such a lousy photo on the basis that it would offend SDSU fans.

I totally disagree. The picture did exactly what he would have liked it to do. Stir up Rabbit fans.

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

I totally disagree. The picture did exactly what he would have liked it to do. Stir up Rabbit fans.

And cancel subscriptions?

Pfft.

Given the choice, I prefer to believe that people are more often stupid than devious, but hey, I could be wrong.

[mango4]

Re: NCC is gone

Meh. I'm not so sure. The editors don't cull the photos to be reviewed. They probably had some underpaid overworked assistant tasked with finding good "rivalry" photos, and of the pictures selected for review that one was probably the 'best' per some bizarre standard (lots of posters, kids dressed the same, etc.), and beyond that no particular thought was given.

It is, at least, a well composed shot, and I'd be surprised if the editorial staff looked much past that.

I'm not that impressed by Stu Whitney, but I doubt that he'd pick such a lousy photo on the basis that it would offend SDSU fans.

Are you serious? I can almost guarantee you that someone who was working the copy picked this photo for a reason

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

Are you serious? I can almost guarantee you that someone who was working the copy picked this photo for a reason

Well, like I said, it's well composed, and if you don't look too close at it, there isn't a problem.

As I've said before, absent some conclusive evidence of an intent to antagonize a group of people, I'll stick by absent-mindedness as the most likely explanation.

[JimmyJack]

Re: NCC is gone

Meh. I'm not so sure. The editors don't cull the photos to be reviewed. They probably had some underpaid overworked assistant tasked with finding good "rivalry" photos, and of the pictures selected for review that one was probably the 'best' per some bizarre standard (lots of posters, kids dressed the same, etc.), and beyond that no particular thought was given.

Actually, not, that's not how it works. FYI: I worked at the Argus Leader and I'm a professor of journalism at SDSU. Just because you "think" it works that way doesn't make it so. In newspapers, every major piece of art is carefully considered. Since this was a section front, it was put together by the sports staff. Whoever was on the desk in the sports area (most of them, other than TV, work the desk at one time or another) put that page together. And again, they don't just grab something and throw it in. When you're paying to print something in color 75,000 times, you don't just settle for whatever art you can find.

By the way, I agree that it wasn't chosen to antagonize anyone. They just didn't carefully consider how it might be read by people like us. They chose it, as you said, because it's a nicely composed image with good color and does tell some kind of story. There are always intended and unintended meanings in any public communication. Good journalists try to envision the meanings that something will spark in readers. They didn't do a good job of that on this one. There isn't anyone on that sports staff with an SDSU degree. They've got Michigan State, Moorhead State, USD, St. Thomas, U of Sioux Falls. But no SDSU unless they've added one recently. So there wasn't anybody there on the sports desk saying, "that's going to piss off everybody from SDSU."

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: NCC is gone

The Argus is into creating a buzz. If they post that photo they know they will get reaction and that is exactly what they want. The more they can hype up the return of the rivalry the better as far as they are concerned. They know that talking up the rivaly draws interest in South Dakota and in turn to their paper. The more they do those kind of things the more hits the website gets. The Argus should pay me for helping their cause in getting SDSU fans going as well. Whether you like it or not the USD SDSU rivalry isn't going to end in any of our lifetimes. It might not be played on the court or field but in peoples minds it is alive and well.

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

Actually, not, that's not how it works. FYI: I worked at the Argus Leader and I'm a professor of journalism at SDSU. Just because you "think" it works that way doesn't make it so.

What?

Are you telling me that the Argus sportswriters went through 80 years worth of photos of Augie/USD, USD/SDSU, and SDSU/Augie events without having someone trim the list a mite?

Gee, that's got to be well into the hundreds of photos--and they actually got together and voted? That's like what? A half dozen journalists spending how much time on how many hundred photos? And the winning image would be the one that gets what? two votes?

If that's how things work in print media, well, no wonder it's dying.

[1bunnies]

Re: NCC is gone

The Argus is into creating a buzz. If they post that photo they know they will get reaction and that is exactly what they want. The more they can hype up the return of the rivalry the better as far as they are concerned. They know that talking up the rivaly draws interest in South Dakota and in turn to their paper. The more they do those kind of things the more hits the website gets. The Argus should pay me for helping their cause in getting SDSU fans going as well. Whether you like it or not the USD SDSU rivalry isn't going to end in any of our lifetimes. It might not be played on the court or field but in peoples minds it is alive and well.

Maybe the Argus is paying you. Maybe you are Mick, or "Stupid Witless". Oh, by the way, the rivalry has ended in our lifetime.

[mango4]

Re: NCC is gone

What?

Are you telling me that the Argus sportswriters went through 80 years worth of photos of Augie/USD, USD/SDSU, and SDSU/Augie events without having someone trim the list a mite?

Gee, that's got to be well into the hundreds of photos--and they actually got together and voted? That's like what? A half dozen journalists spending how much time on how many hundred photos? And the winning image would be the one that gets what? two votes?

If that's how things work in print media, well, no wonder it's dying.

I highly doubt they went through 80 years, maybe the last couple. The photographers at events take hundreds of pictures, know how many are actually usable? Probably 10-20. I work at a paper and take pictures for some stories, most of the time the pictures are junk and can't be used, but you usually get a couple decent ones that can be used. Like JJ said, this was a huge picture on the front page of the section, it wasn't chose on some whim. I bet they had a bunch they were considering but felt this was the best because of the composition and what not.

Unless you work at a paper you can speculate all you want, but most of your speculations are wrong

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

I highly doubt they went through 80 years, maybe the last couple. The photographers at events take hundreds of pictures, know how many are actually usable? Probably 10-20. I work at a paper and take pictures for some stories, most of the time the pictures are junk and can't be used, but you usually get a couple decent ones that can be used. Like JJ said, this was a huge picture on the front page of the section, it wasn't chose on some whim. I bet they had a bunch they were considering but felt this was the best because of the composition and what not.

Unless you work at a paper you can speculate all you want, but most of your speculations are wrong

So, your assertion is that:

15 usable pictures per event

4 years worth of events

9 events per year (SDSU/USD, Augie/USD, Augie/SDSU = 3 football games & 6 basketball games a year)

=

540 pictures to sort through, only 2 years worth and you're looking at 270 pictures.

That's hardly a tiny easy to manage number.

Like I said, if there wasn't someone assigned to narrow down the number of photos to a manageable quantity (say 20-30 MAX), then no wonder print is in trouble.

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

Alternatively, if they just grabbed the last 30 or so photos they ran from the last 2 years worth of events, then well, gee no wonder the photo was a dog.

[mango4]

Re: NCC is gone

Alternatively, if they just grabbed the last 30 or so photos they ran from the last 2 years worth of events, then well, gee no wonder the photo was a dog.

I bet they could have found a lot better picture than they one they picked.

[JimmyJack]

Re: NCC is gone

What?

Are you telling me that the Argus sportswriters went through 80 years worth of photos of Augie/USD, USD/SDSU, and SDSU/Augie events without having someone trim the list a mite?

Gee, that's got to be well into the hundreds of photos--and they actually got together and voted? That's like what? A half dozen journalists spending how much time on how many hundred photos? And the winning image would be the one that gets what? two votes?

If that's how things work in print media, well, no wonder it's dying.

OK, I'll keep trying to educate you although you seem intent on making up your own story here anyway. Photographers go to an event and take lots of photos. When they get back, they pick the best handful and they are entered into a computer database with keywords and such. That's been the process for about the last 10 years or so. They might take 50 photos at a game, but 50 don't make it into the database. Even if all 50 were there, it's a computer database, searchable by keyword, so it's fairly easy to find things when you want them.

Now say you're the editor in charge of laying out a section front for the Sunday paper (Sunday is the largest circulation day, so you want something good as your centerpiece art.) What do you do? You do a search of the computer database and figure out what photos are available and think about what you want to illustrate the story. You pick one and create your layout around it. I could get into a bit about layout as well. That certainly is a careful and purposeful task. You're not just fitting things together. You're designing a page. To do that, you pick things like centerpiece art with some care and thought. So, no, nobody's voting. But some editor is specifically picking a photo for the front and designing a page around it. Then, another editor will take a look at the layout to make sure it's good, and correct, and worthy of a Sunday front.

That's the process. It's not haphazard, but it's not some half-ass process as you seem intent on suggesting.

[zooropa]

Re: NCC is gone

You're not just fitting things together. You're designing a page. To do that, you pick things like centerpiece art with some care and thought. So, no, nobody's voting. But some editor is specifically picking a photo for the front and designing a page around it. Then, another editor will take a look at the layout to make sure it's good, and correct, and worthy of a Sunday front.

That's the process. It's not haphazard, but it's not some half-ass process as you seem intent on suggesting.

So, it's up to some guy with numerous other tasks assigned to him to select a centerpiece? A centerpiece that is then reviewed by one other guy?

Gee. That's so much better than assigning an overworked minion to do some research and produce a set of possible options that is reviewed by the staff.

====

And please, don't use the word 'design' in connection with anything done at the Argus.

There are two reasons why I dropped the Argus:

1) The editorial content was atrocious.

2) It is an ugly, ugly, paper.

Frankly the dog's breakfast approach to font selection alone leaves me disgusted. And that's without considering the dozens of other insults to aesthetics that the paper perpetrates on a daily basis.

Seriously--and granted, this is a bit off topic--go pick up a Star Trib some day. Count the number of font families used for headlines throughout the entire paper (basically three: Bodoni--or a Didone variant, a heavy Egyptienne, and News Gothic--or a similar family of true Gothic font). Now count the number of fonts used in the Argus. On the front page alone.