Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

[Haldersham]

The Argus Leader was full of articles yesterday about the execution and about Mr. Page. He commited a heinious crime, no doubt about it, but how he was raised as a child is a horrible story. I think most of the stories from yesterday's print verison are available for reading for those of you who live out of the area.

I am certainly not a proponent of the death penalty for the following reasons:

1. It does not bring the victims back to life.

2. Its not a deterent except for the person who committed crime and is subsequently put to death. You cant argue with the statement that" He/she will never kill again."

3. Its not workable with the current legal systems that allows an unlimited appeals which take years before the execution can take place. I dont think shortening the appeal process is a good idea either.

4. Those who are finally executed seem to have a very sad history of child rearing. The ones who commit these heinous crimes do not come from middle class and above income status, where the individuals have had a solid support system of two parents. Often these criminals grew up in a hostile home enviroment where there was no dad there to play catch with the football, baseball and to shoot hoops in the driveway.

5. I think life sentences without parole are probably a better judgement. The criminal is forced to live with their heinous behaviour for the rest of their lives. In Page's case he is already guilt ridden to the point that he wishes to die.

6. Most importantly, DNA testing has proven some people innocent after being properly tried and convicted. Again its about individual economic resouces and that abilty to obtain adequate legal counsel.

I was 6 years old when George Sitts was elecctricuted in 1947. All I remember is my older sister was reading the Argus shortly after the execution. I asked my sister what she was reading and she told me what happened, and this capital punishment happened too those bad people who killed people. Murder was a very thing bad and unforgiveable thing to commit. Not being able to read the newspaper at the time, George Sitts stayed in my mind and I could always answer the trivia question when capital punishment in SD came up. Yesterday in the Argus, Dave Kranz commented at length on the excution of George Sitts in 1947. It amazing that George too, was an orphan and never had much of support system.

If everyone was a great parent, I think we would not need the death penalty. Of course being a non-parent, its easy to say that.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

The Argus Leader was full of articles yesterday about the execution and about Mr. Page. He commited a heinious crime, no doubt about, but how he was raised as a child is a horrible story. I think most of the stories from yesterday's print verison are available for reading for those of you who live out of the area.

I am certainly not a proponent of the death penalty for the following reasons:

1. It does not bring the victims back to life.

2. Its not a deterent except for the person who committed crime and is subsequently put to death. You cant argue with the statement that" He/she will never kill again."

3. Its not workable with the current legal systems that allows an unlimited appeals which take years before the execution can take place. I dont think shortening the appeal process is a good idea either.

4. Those who are finally executed seem to have a very sad history of child rearing. The ones who commit these heinous crimes do not come from middle class and above income status, where the individuals have had a solid support system of two parents. Often these criminals grew up in a hostile home enviroment where there was no dad there to play catch with the football, baseball and to shoot hoops in the driveway.

5. I think life sentences without parole are probably a better judgement. The criminal is forced to live with their heinous behaviour for the rest of their lives. In Page's case he is already guilt ridden to the point that he wishes to die.

6. Most importantly, DNA testing has proven some people innocent after being properly tried and convicted. Again its about individual economic resouces and that abilty to obtain adequate legal counsel.

I was 6 years old when George Sitts was elecctricuted in 1947. All I remember is my older sister was reading the Argus shortly after the execution. I asked my sister what she was reading and she told me what happened, and this capital punishment happened too those bad people who killed people. Murder was a very thing bad and unforgiveable thing to commit. Not being able to read the newspaper at the time, George Sitts stayed in my mind and I could always answer the trivia question when capital punishment in SD came up. Yesterday in the Argus, Dave Kranz commented at length on the excution of George Sitts in 1947. It amazing that George too, was an orphan and never had much of support system.

If everyone was a great parent, I think we would not need the death penalty. Of course being a non-parent, its easy to say that.

I am a proponent of the death penalty and am glad that Mr. Page will be put to death Tuesday night. While you make good points, I take issue with a couple:

4. Those who are finally executed seem to have a very sad history of child rearing. The ones who commit these heinous crimes do not come from middle class and above income status, where the individuals have had a solid support system of two parents. Often these criminals grew up in a hostile home enviroment where there was no dad there to play catch with the football, baseball and to shoot hoops in the driveway.

I can't argue too much with this point. But it's not alway the case. Scott Peterson is one example. "Capital defenses often focus on the neglectful or abusive childhood of the defendant, but Peterson grew up in an affluent, two-parent family who provided a home with a pool and all the golf lessons he wanted." http://www.courttv.com/trials/peterson/120104_ctv.html

Brad Reay of Pierre could prove to be another example.

5. I think life sentences without parole are probably a better judgement. The criminal is forced to live with their heinous behaviour for the rest of their lives. In Page's case he is already guilt ridden to the point that he wishes to die.

At no point has Mr. Page shown any sign of sincere sign or guilt or remorse. The only time he did show remorse is when he thought it would save his own life. I don't believe he's guilt ridden to the point he wishes to die. I think that would quailify him as mentally unfit to proceed without his attorney. The only good thing about Mr. Page is he has accepted his punishment.

6. Most importantly, DNA testing has proven some people innocent after being properly tried and convicted. Again its about individual economic resouces and that abilty to obtain adequate legal counsel.

I challenge you to find a case where an innocent person have been put to death. Sure, innocent men have been put on death row but I don't believe the sentence has been carried out on any one of them.

[Haldersham]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

RabbitinVermillion:

Oh how quickly we forget, Scott Peterson.!!!  I recall seeing on Court Tv. that he met Lacy at Cal Poly San Luis Obiso. They were horticulture majors.

I knew I would be challenged on this but I am grateful, that some have gotten off death row because of DNA. I will accept your points and I knew some one would reply.  

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

I believe this is an issue similar to abortion in that each person will come to their own position, and it is unlikely that any arguments will change any one person's mind.

As for an innocent person being executed, I believe there is a case in SD from many years ago where it is generally conceded that an innocent man was executed. John Egan, the former Argus sports writer has written a book on the subject, as the executed individual was an ancestor of his.

A major reason why there have not been proven cases since the DP was reinstated, is that after the fact it is almost impossible to reopen the case. Since it has happened in the past, and many states take the position, (not completely unfounded), that DNA evidence after the fact is not admissable, I think it would be somewhat naive to think that an innocent person has not or will not be executed in this country. Since human beings are involved, I have no doubt mistakes will be made. My question for proponents is this, how many innocent people put to death is an acceptable rate?

[Haldersham]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

Yes capital punishment is about life as is abortion, both very difficult issues. Often people can not come down on the same side on both issues. Those who cry no to abortion will often cry yes to capital punishment. I think I am for abortion if it is to save the life of the mother, but as I stated above capital punishment is often not applied in a uniform manner if there are economic means to hire the best in legal representation.


I am hardly one to convince anyone about anything. I would agree it probably is hard to re-open cases for DNA testing once the capital punishment has been completed.. Maybe its because those families of those put to death do not have means to legally re-open the cases even if the state law would allow this to happen.  

I can help but think of the Rosenberg's who were put to death in 1953. Their two sons have writen books and tried all sort of things to exonerate their parents. I have seen one of them on CSPAN BOOK Review. Off hand dont recall the details, but they were convicted of selling atomic secrets to the Soviet Union. At the time there was very little sympathy for the Rosenbergs, but their sons have subsequently uncovered some evidence that would point to their innoncence. The executions occured about the time of the rise of Senator Joesph McCarthy from Wisconsin. I am not a defender of the Rosenbergs, but do recall the execution in 1953. Maybe its the voice of my older sister that has never gotten out of my system.  

Also I read in a local weekly about the execution of John Egan's grandfather. That was not pretty either. I believe there was a death bed confession by a step daughter that would have exonerated the grandfather.

[jackmd]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

I believe this is an issue similar to abortion in that each person will come to their own position, and it is unlikely that any arguments will change any one person's mind.

Agree with this statement. I can't favor the death penalty and yet I do not oppose abortion outright. These issues do not have easy answers anyone who thinks or says one view is more correct than the other is impractical virtually impossible to deal with. Emotions quickly overtake logic and the thought process is left in shambles. My 2 cents.

[filbert]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

[quote author=1stRowFANatic link=1156778796/0#3 date=1156781741]I believe this is an issue similar to abortion in that each person will come to their own position, and it is unlikely that any arguments will change any one person's mind.

Agree with this statement. I can't favor the death penalty and yet I do not oppose abortion outright. These issues do not have easy answers anyone who thinks or says one view is more correct than the other is impractical virtually impossible to deal with. Emotions quickly overtake logic and the thought process is left in shambles. My 2 cents.
[/quote]

I'm probably an aggressive moderate on both capital punishment and abortion. Both happen too often. However, both have their place, IMHO.

What's the Gandalf the Grey quote?

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.'

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

 
Emotions quickly overtake logic and the thought process is left in shambles.

Probably the best summation I have heard on both issues in a long time.
Edit: And I do not exclude myself.

[1bunnies]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

Gov. Rounds will stay the execution. Press conference from Pierre at 5:50 p.m.

[Haldersham]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

Legal issues about the useage of certain drugs during the lethal injections. Apparently Gov Rounds threw it back to the legislature. I assume he did the right thing.  One of the things that I can not understand about lethal injection procedures is that the inmates arm is swabbed with alchohol prior to the injection. Is that really necessary? What kind of disase is the inmate  likely to be subjected to when there is a lethal injection on its way?  :-/

[SiouxFooJack]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

If he were a real man, Gov. Rounds would have called up the penatentury and said "You know what people, we only need to use two injections for this one." Page dies, gets his punishment, meets his maker. End of story. If it were me, I would treat him the same as he treated his victim. Tearing off his ears, stabbing him multiple times, making him drink acid, and finally crushing his scull with large rocks. That's just me. Have a nice day.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

If he were a real man, Gov. Rounds would have called up the penatentury and said "You know what people, we only need to use two injections for this one."  Page dies, gets his punishment, meets his maker.  End of story.  If it were me, I would treat him the same as he treated his victim.  Tearing off his ears, stabbing him multiple times, making him drink acid, and finally crushing his scull with large rocks.  That's just me.  Have a nice day.

I think Gov. Rounds made the right call on this one; he just should have made it sooner. If they used 3 drugs, we're violating a state statute. And that's not something we want to do when executing someone. If they use 2 drugs, they run the risk of lawsuits and who knows what else (could be seen as torture if the drugs don't work right).

[Haldersham]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

[quote author=SiouxFooJack link=1156778796/0#10 date=1157082194]If he were a real man, Gov. Rounds would have called up the penatentury and said "You know what people, we only need to use two injections for this one."  Page dies, gets his punishment, meets his maker.  End of story.  If it were me, I would treat him the same as he treated his victim.  Tearing off his ears, stabbing him multiple times, making him drink acid, and finally crushing his scull with large rocks.  That's just me.  Have a nice day.

I think Gov. Rounds made the right call on this one; he just should have made it sooner.  If they used 3 drugs, we're violating a state statute.  And that's not something we want to do when executing someone.  If they use 2 drugs, they run the risk of lawsuits and who knows what else (could be seen as torture if the drugs don't work right).
[/quote]

I would agree. Rounds should have made the right call  sooner. In addition, this discrepency in the law should and could  have been cprrected sooner. That would have been the ideal situation. It's always hindsight that is much better than foresight. Also easier to say that punishment should match the crime. But if the state duplicates the actions of the criminal, is that not a little uncivil or does that make the state a criminal?  These are the questions that I have about capital punishement in general. The state seems to be trying to unduplicate the crime by using means of lethal injections that include swabbing the arm with alchohol before adminstrating the injection. I am very cynical about this issue. No question in my mind that Page committed a horrible crime and does deserve some form of punishment.

[jackmd]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

I'm in the camp that thinks Rounds never intended to let this happen. He was hoping Paige would balk and resume the appeals process. I think, when that didn't happen, Rounds played his trump card.

[Haldersham]

Re: Execution for Elijah Page is Set for Tuesday

I'm in the camp that thinks Rounds never intended to let this happen.  He was hoping Paige would balk and resume the appeals process.  I think, when that didn't happen, Rounds played his trump card.

You could be very correct, Governor Rounds is a very astute politican, and I don't see him dropping out of politics after finishing two terms as governor. I will not vote for him, but I would take bets that he will win. It would be a good way to make some money.