New Arena for Sioux Falls

[2002jack]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

For a location yes putting it downtown will bring money there but alot of that money is already Sioux Falls spent. If I lived in Sioux Falls ya I would make an afternoon of it but if I am the average guy with a wife and 2 kids from out of town I am not going to make an afternoon of going downtown I would rather hit the mall and McDonalds and go to the arena and as soon as the event is over I would want to get out of town.

If you put an arena on the south side near the interstate you would drawl more from Tea, Harrisburg, Hartford, and Lennox. By doing that you bring OUT OF TOWN DOLLARS into town. Which benifits the whole town not just one part.

Your missing the point of putting it downtown Joe.  They hope if it is located downtown...shopping centers, hotels, and eating establishments will be built around the new arena.

A rebirth of sorts.

[89rabbit]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Your missing the point of putting it downtown Joe.  They hope if it is located downtown...shopping centers, hotels, and eating establishments will be built around the new arena.

A rebirth of sorts.

Of course if the shopping centers, hotels, and eating establishments are built it perhaps would magnify the issues of lack of parking and lack of transportation corridors.

I do agree that many cities are building arenas in their downtowns in an effort to revitalize their downtown areas. However, one of the things that make Sioux Falls a bit unique is that the transportation network really isn't focused on downtown. In most cities the interstates lead to downtown, and/or loop around downtown. They certainly are very close in most cases. Sioux Falls is different. I think this is the case because of history and because of geography.

Let's be honest how long ago was "Downtown" Sioux Falls the hub of the city? I don't believe it was in my lifetime. I am guessing the reason that there is no direct connection with the interstate is because "Downtown" wasn't the hub of Sioux Falls when the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 was passed.


Kansas City is building a new "Downtown" Arena but they are building it inside the downtown loop (connection of I-35, I-70, I-670, and US Hwy 71). They built the Speedway at the "corner" of I-70 and I-435 (Kansas side – West side). The Truman Sports Complex (Home of Arrowhead Stadium and Kauffman Stadium are also on I-70 and I-435 (Missouri side – East Side). These projects where built with the movement of people in mind.

For those of you who hold up "special events" and say look how many people went to them. Keep in mind that all those people (for the most part) didn't arrive and leave at approximately the same time. These events are also once a year special events. People will put up with more if it is a once a year special event. Keep in mind that the main tenants of a new arena will be the Skyforce, Storm, and Stampede. Although their games maybe special they happen fairly regularly and they need their fans to come again and again. If you make it too challenging for those customers to get to and from the game and it is hard to park are they going to keep going to the games? Why run that risk if you don’t have to (and you don’t when you are building new). Sioux Falls is going to keep growing and I foresee the problem worsening over time not getting better.

To me it seems foolish to funnel large amounts of people into an area that from an infrastructure stand point will have a hard time accommodating them. When you have options that will allow you to plan and build to meet future needs. It is like people who build homes near airports and then complain about the noise. Why set yourself up for failure? Why not put it somewhere that transportation and parking are not issues if you are building from scratch? At least that is my take on it.

Living in Kansas City, it doesn't really matter to me. I won't be attending many events in Sioux Falls and any I do will be "special events" so I won't mind fighting the traffic or looking for parking if it comes to that. The question is will the local and regional people feel the same way when deciding on how they are going to spend their entertainment dollars.

At the end of the day I don't really care where it is as long as they build it because Sioux Falls needs a new arena. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.


Go State!

[Jacks02]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

For a location yes putting it downtown will bring money there but alot of that money is already Sioux Falls spent. If I lived in Sioux Falls ya I would make an afternoon of it but if I am the average guy with a wife and 2 kids from out of town I am not going to make an afternoon of going downtown I would rather hit the mall and McDonalds and go to the arena and as soon as the event is over I would want to get out of town.

If you put an arena on the south side near the interstate you would drawl more from Tea, Harrisburg, Hartford, and Lennox. By doing that you bring OUT OF TOWN DOLLARS into town. Which benifits the whole town not just one part.

In 25 years Harrisburg and Tea are going to be connected to Sioux Falls, as is Brandon. I don't really see that as much of an issue. If someone wants to go to a basketball game or a concert, I think they will go to either location.

[Jacks02]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

[quote author=2002jack link=1182984804/30#30 date=1183152096]  


Your missing the point of putting it downtown Joe.  They hope if it is located downtown...shopping centers, hotels, and eating establishments will be built around the new arena.

A rebirth of sorts.

Of course if the shopping centers, hotels, and eating establishments are built it perhaps would magnify the issues of lack of parking and lack of transportation corridors.

I do agree that many cities are building arenas in their downtowns in an effort to revitalize their downtown areas.  However, one of the things that make Sioux Falls a bit unique is that the transportation network really isn't focused on downtown.  In most cities the interstates lead to downtown, and/or loop around downtown.  They certainly are very close in most cases.  Sioux Falls is different.  I think this is the case because of history and because of geography.

Let's be honest how long ago was "Downtown" Sioux Falls the hub of the city?  I don't believe it was in my lifetime.  I am guessing the reason that there is no direct connection with the interstate is because "Downtown" wasn't the hub of Sioux Falls when the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 was passed.


Kansas City is building a new "Downtown" Arena but they are building it inside the downtown loop (connection of I-35, I-70, I-670, and US Hwy 71).  They built the Speedway at the "corner" of I-70 and I-435 (Kansas side – West side).  The Truman Sports Complex (Home of Arrowhead Stadium and Kauffman Stadium are also on I-70 and I-435 (Missouri side – East Side).  These projects where built with the movement of people in mind.

For those of you who hold up "special events" and say look how many people went to them.  Keep in mind that all those people (for the most part) didn't arrive and leave at approximately the same time.  These events are also once a year special events.  People will put up with more if it is a once a year special event.  Keep in mind that the main tenants of a new arena will be the Skyforce, Storm, and Stampede.  Although their games maybe special they happen fairly regularly and they need their fans to come again and again.  If you make it too challenging for those customers to get to and from the game and it is hard to park are they going to keep going to the games?  Why run that risk if you don’t have to (and you don’t when you are building new).  Sioux Falls is going to keep growing and I foresee the problem worsening over time not getting better.  

To me it seems foolish to funnel large amounts of people into an area that from an infrastructure stand point will have a hard time accommodating them.  When you have options that will allow you to plan and build to meet future needs.  It is like people who build homes near airports and then complain about the noise.  Why set yourself up for failure?  Why not put it somewhere that transportation and parking are not issues if you are building from scratch?  At least that is my take on it.

Living in Kansas City, it doesn't really matter to me.  I won't be attending many events in Sioux Falls and any I do will be "special events"  so I won't mind fighting the traffic or looking for parking if it comes to that.  The question is will the local and regional people feel the same way when deciding on how they are going to spend their entertainment dollars.

At the end of the day I don't really care where it is as long as they build it because Sioux Falls needs a new arena.  It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.  


Go State!  [/quote]

Good points made there, as always 89.

I don't really care either way where it goes, I just want to see the damn thing built! ;D

[2002jack]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Not that I speak for the mayor, or listened to his arguments for a downtown arena....I'm guessing his debatable points are this.

1)  A downtown arena would create a desire for people to shop, live, and do business downtown.  Office buildings would be built, jobs would be created, and families would have the desire to live downtown.  

2) The Philips to Falls project would create a corridor, along with Minnesota (heading north/south) and 10th and 12th Streets (heading east and west).  This would allow people to easily access and exit downtown.

The argument that downtown SF sucks now and has for a long time is not debatable.  It is a place no one wants go, live, or stay right now.

The argument should be:  Will a downtown arena make the downtown area a place to live, do business, etc.

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

We have a similar but different problem in Tyndall accouple of buisinesses have enquired (sp) about putting a store in Tyndall some people think they should build on subpar lots near the railroad (thats getting rebuilt) in town (help downtown), others think they should build it on the highway (lots located as part of the old John Deere dealership). I understand that putting an arena would help downtown but like 89rabbit said Sioux Falls is different the new part of town is southeast and thats where I think it should be built but the main reason is Sioux Falls could make it similiar to Rapid Cities. You could start with an arena add a convention center in 5 years add a rec center in 10 years add a second arena in 15 years add a parking garage later. (expand it as the city expands) By doing that you don't have an outdated or an undersized events center in 15 years.

[2002jack]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

We have a similar but different problem in Tyndall accouple of buisinesses have enquired (sp) about putting a store in Tyndall some people think they should build on subpar lots near the railroad (thats getting rebuilt) in town (help downtown), others think they should build it on the highway (lots located as part of the old John Deere dealership). I understand that putting an arena would help downtown but like 89rabbit said Sioux Falls is different the new part of town is southeast and thats where I think it should be built but the main reason is Sioux Falls could make it similiar to Rapid Cities. You could start with an arena add a convention center in 5 years add a rec center in 10 years add a second arena in 15 years add a parking garage later. (expand it as the city expands) By doing that you don't have an outdated or an undersized events center in 15 years.

They just built the convention center no more then 10 years ago.   Southwest S.F. needs no help developing.  If anything they are taking away prime real estate, instead of creating it.

I'm not sure I am for a downtown Arena, but I haven't heard an argument against.

Maybe it is worth the risk.  A risk similar to making a move from DII to DI?  Alot of people want to say it won't work in South Dakota.  Don't let fear operate your life.

As for Tyndall..they should be happy that anyone wants to build a business there. Let them build it wherever they want to.

[2002jack]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

We have a similar but different problem in Tyndall accouple of buisinesses have enquired (sp) about putting a store in Tyndall some people think they should build on subpar lots near the railroad (thats getting rebuilt) in town (help downtown), others think they should build it on the highway (lots located as part of the old John Deere dealership). I understand that putting an arena would help downtown but like 89rabbit said Sioux Falls is different the new part of town is southeast and thats where I think it should be built but the main reason is Sioux Falls could make it similiar to Rapid Cities. You could start with an arena add a convention center in 5 years add a rec center in 10 years add a second arena in 15 years add a parking garage later. (expand it as the city expands) By doing that you don't have an outdated or an undersized events center in 15 years.

What's the plans for all the traffic this new business in Tyndall will create? ;D ;D

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Thats why there redoing mainstreet right now. when there done all of mainstreet will be less then 10 years old and the road going east and west on then north end of main is only 3 years old. The town of Tyndall is ready

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

We have a similar but different problem in Tyndall accouple of buisinesses have enquired (sp) about putting a store in Tyndall some people think they should build on subpar lots near the railroad (thats getting rebuilt) in town (help downtown), others think they should build it on the highway (lots located as part of the old John Deere dealership). I understand that putting an arena would help downtown but like 89rabbit said Sioux Falls is different the new part of town is southeast and thats where I think it should be built but the main reason is Sioux Falls could make it similiar to Rapid Cities. You could start with an arena add a convention center in 5 years add a rec center in 10 years add a second arena in 15 years add a parking garage later. (expand it as the city expands) By doing that you don't have an outdated or an undersized events center in 15 years.

You are comparing downtown Sioux Falls to downtown Tyndall? :-?

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

not exacually... im comparing the situation... build it downtown and help downtown or build it out of town and attract out of town dollars.

[collegewatcher]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

2002jack: You may want to check out downtown Sioux Falls again. Open air bars and cafes, 5 or 6 special events per year that bring hundreds of thousands of people downtown, loft spaces that are full the minute they come available and for a really high price, and a full array of businesses. Downtown Sioux Falls has seen a wonderful revitalization, much of it in the last 5 years.

Concering downtown in relation to the interstate in other cities with new arenas:

Sioux City - 1 block
Fargo - 1 block
St. Paul - 2 blocks
Omaha - 1 block
Council Bluffs - 1 block
Green Bay - 1 block
Distance from downtown SF to Interstate - 1 mile (east) 2miles (south), and 2 miles to I-90 (north).

[2002jack]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

2002jack: You may want to check out downtown Sioux Falls again. Open air bars and cafes, 5 or 6 special events per year that bring hundreds of thousands of people downtown, loft spaces that are full the minute they come available and for a really high price, and a full array of businesses. Downtown Sioux Falls has seen a wonderful revitalization, much of it in the last 5 years.

Concering downtown in relation to the interstate in other cities with new arenas:

Sioux City - 1 block
Fargo - 1 block
St. Paul - 2 blocks
Omaha - 1 block
Council Bluffs - 1 block
Green Bay - 1 block
Distance from downtown SF to Interstate - 1 mile (east) 2miles (south), and 2 miles to I-90 (north).

I disagree with part of what you said. Are you talking about Fargo, North Dakota? The downtown area is quite a long way from the interstate. I may be confused. I'm not sure what they consider downtown Fargo. We might need someone from Bisonville to tell us what it is.

I was just in Green Bay recently. Both the Resch(sp?) Center and Lambeau Field are more than 1 block from the interstate. What other Arena are you talking about? The Kress Center? That's like 2 miles from the interstate, and a on campus facility. You're probably right about the other cities.

Still not a good argument against a downtown S.F. arena. You don't need an interstate to move traffic. I'm not the authority on this. I'm just trying to here an arugment against putting an arena downtown.

Or are you on my side collegewatcher? I'm honestly confused on the post. Downtown S.F. might be the "happening" place to be, they should build an arena there.

[89rabbit]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

2002jack: You may want to check out downtown Sioux Falls again. Open air bars and cafes, 5 or 6 special events per year that bring hundreds of thousands of people downtown, loft spaces that are full the minute they come available and for a really high price, and a full array of businesses. Downtown Sioux Falls has seen a wonderful revitalization, much of it in the last 5 years.

Concering downtown in relation to the interstate in other cities with new arenas:

Sioux City - 1 block
Fargo - 1 block
St. Paul - 2 blocks
Omaha - 1 block
Council Bluffs - 1 block
Green Bay - 1 block
Distance from downtown SF to Interstate - 1 mile (east) 2miles (south), and 2 miles to I-90 (north).

Good point.  I know to some 1 or 2 miles doesn't sound too bad, but now think about 10,000 to 15,000 people trying to leave this arena all at the same time.  Think about bumper to bumper traffic and all the stop lights you run into on that mile before you get to the relative freedom of the interstate.

From a parking stand point think about South Dakota in the winter is a block or two a long ways to walk.  Might people decide it isn't worth the hassle of fighting the traffic in and out and paying for parking?

Have you ever thought "man I had to park all the way out there" (and been a little grumpy about it) for a Jackrabbit game or at some event at the Sioux Falls Arena.  Will it be better or worse at a new downtown arena in Sioux Falls?

Kemper Arena in Kansas City is a great example of what not to do.  It is an arena built in the wrong part of town, the "West Bottoms" an industrial section just a little ways from downtown.   It was supposed to revitalize the old stock yard district.  It didn't.   It is in the wrong part of town, and people don't want to go there.  The parking is bad and the access to the Interstate, although close (.7 miles away), is horrible if the place is packed.  I remember sitting in a parking garage for over an hour after a George Strait concert.

Does Kemper have special events that do well?  Sure when the Big 12 tourney is in town they sell all 19,500 seats.  However both the Kansas City Kings (NBA) and Kansas City Scouts (NHL) failed in Kemper Arena (partly due to its location).  The Sprint Center (18,000 + seats) is being built about 1.5 miles away and it sounds like the Nashville Predators (NHL) are ready to move and call it home.  In this case 1.5 miles makes all the difference in the world.  The Sprint Center will have great Interstate access (one block to I-670 and just a few blocks to I-70, I-35, and US HWY71).  Parking won’t be great but that is always an issue with a downtown arena, but it won’t be any worse then Kemper (and people in Kansas City are used to paying for downtown parking .  .  .  what about South Dakotans?).  

Again I don’t really care where Sioux Falls builds their new arena, as long as they build it, I just have some concerns.  I do remember going to a production of Romeo and Juliet (on a date), while I was attending SDSU as a student, put on at the Orpheum Theater downtown (a traveling troop from Washington DC, it was a very good performance) and I recall feeling that it was hard to get to the Orpheum as compared to say the current Sioux Falls Arena.  Now a lot has changed since then (Sioux Falls has certainly gotten much bigger) and I know this is not the exact location where the new arena has been proposed.  However the Orpheum had no where near the capacity that the new Arena will have.

I am far away from this situation, and I have not really studied the need for downtown revitalization in Sioux Falls.  My opinions are driven more by my experiences as a user of such venues in a general sense.  The one thing I can tell you (having gotten home from a KC Royals game not so long ago) is that once an event is over I am ready to get on the road and get home.  I hate sitting in traffic.  The hardest part even with great interstate access is getting out of the parking lot when you have 20,585 (tonight's attendance - kind of rainy in KC so the crowd was light) are all trying to leave at the same time.  From a users stand point access to transportation corridors and the efficient disbursement of a crowd is paramount.

Go State!  

[2002jack]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

If you can figure out a way to get 20,000+ people out of a 1 mile square area without any congestion and traffic jams, you're way more intellegent than I am.