New Arena for Sioux Falls

[Jacks-02]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

The report said the dome took in $187,282 from the AC/DC concert after expenses. The January concert drew more than 21,000 people.

5% of the revenue came from one concert, one that Sioux Falls wouldn't get with a 12,00 seat arena.

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

one that Sioux Falls wouldn't get with a 12,00 seat arena.

Those numbers are only possible with a football tenant or an NBA tenant to provide ongoing revenue. That AC/DC concert wouldn't have drawn 21,000 in Omaha or Des Moines due to the limits of their facilities.

[Hammersmith]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Depending on how the agreement is structured:

1) Fargodome pays $x to NDSU every year, collects 100% of the gate, concessions, attempts to turn a profit (similar to appearance fees for concerts).

2) NDSU pays $x to the Fargodome every year, collects 100% of the gate, concessions, etc., uses surplus to fund football program (similar to facility rental for trade shows)

3) Some combination of the two (e.g. NDSU gets gate, Fargodome gets concessions).

I would assume that the Bison rent the Fargodome and keep the gate, but doubt that they get the Fargodome cheap. In any event I would be surprised if the Bison accont for less than half the revenue at the Fargodome.

Prepare to be surprised. I can't find the specifics of the current deal, but the previous contract(2002-2006) was $120,000/year for 40 days/year. NDSU kept 100% of the ticket income, the Fargodome kept 100% of the parking, and NDSU got a small cut of the concessions. From what I read, The FD makes between $20,000 and $25,000 of net profit from those other sources for each Bison game. So, the FD makes about $250,000/year combined off of Bison football. Last year, the AC/DC concert alone equaled three-quarters of that. There is also an annual trade show or two that approaches the six-figure mark over four days.

Back in the early days of the Fargodome(when concerts were plentiful), Bison football could have disappeared and the FD would've still made a profit(it was bringing in over $800,000/year). Today, that wouldn't be the case. In the post-9/11 and post tech bubble world, the FD doesn't make enough profit to withstand the loss of any major element of its budget. While never going into the red, it has flirted with the line; I believe the lowest profit was around $15,000. With annual profits still below $100,000, losing NDSU football would result in the FD going into the red, but so would the loss of a trade show or two, or a couple concerts, or a couple other events. NDSU is a stable revenue stream for the FD, but it's not the giant you seem to think it is.

[boxerboy]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Prepare to be surprised. I can't find the specifics of the current deal, but the previous contract(2002-2006) was $120,000/year for 40 days/year. NDSU kept 100% of the ticket income, the Fargodome kept 100% of the parking, and NDSU got a small cut of the concessions. From what I read, The FD makes between $20,000 and $25,000 of net profit from those other sources for each Bison game. So, the FD makes about $250,000/year combined off of Bison football. Last year, the AC/DC concert alone equaled three-quarters of that. There is also an annual trade show or two that approaches the six-figure mark over four days.

Back in the early days of the Fargodome(when concerts were plentiful), Bison football could have disappeared and the FD would've still made a profit(it was bringing in over $800,000/year). Today, that wouldn't be the case. In the post-9/11 and post tech bubble world, the FD doesn't make enough profit to withstand the loss of any major element of its budget. While never going into the red, it has flirted with the line; I believe the lowest profit was around $15,000. With annual profits still below $100,000, losing NDSU football would result in the FD going into the red, but so would the loss of a trade show or two, or a couple concerts, or a couple other events. NDSU is a stable revenue stream for the FD, but it's not the giant you seem to think it is.

Zoo currently scrambling to rebut.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

This segment taped on Monday with the Argus Leader and the tasks force chairs is the best analysis of where things are at and the road ahead. It's long, but very informative.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...mplate=mogulus

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Prepare to be surprised.

Holy CRAP! Could NDSU run their own facility for $120k a year? That's an almost scandalously good deal for NDSU....

Also, are you talking $20-25k -profit- or $20-25k -revenue-?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

1) You have to understand how SF boosters see SF: They see SF as deserving big city amenities--including an events facility that deserves comparisons with the Qwest Center, not the Tyson Events Center or the Rushmore Plaza. Right now their reach, by far, exceeds their grasp.

2) That's an unsubstantiated generalization if ever I saw one. My take, as a 12 year resident of the city, is that the public wants, and will readily vote for infrastructure expenditures and family-friendly amenities.

A third penny sales tax, if directed toward, say the Lewis & Clark pipeline, flood control, etc. would likely pass.

A third penny sales tax intended to satiate the vanity of Kelby Krabbenhoft, T. Denny, and Dana Dykhouse will be roundly defeated under the populist/horse sense rationale of 'if they want it, let them pay for it themselves.'

Understand that there is a 'silent majority' of SF citizens that, while grateful for the jobs, does not care for the airs that Kelby & the Premier folks have assumed, nor do they care for the freeness with which they're willing to spend public funds.

Five paragraphs, four of which include "unsubstantiated generalizations."

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

What is the best option that would pass a city wide vote?

Does having polarizing figures like Krabenoff and Dykhouse on the committee hurt things?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

What is the best option that would pass a city wide vote?

Does having polarizing figures like Krabenoff and Dykhouse on the committee hurt things?

I think there is a small vocal minority that won't support the new event center because of in your words "polarizing figures. That's pretty sad IMHO as this should not be about individuals who simply are trying to improve the prospects for a new entertainment venue in Sioux Falls. Krabenhoft is not even on the committee anymore.

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Five paragraphs, four of which include "unsubstantiated generalizations."

What 'unsubstantiated generalizations'?

In aiming for a 15,000 seat venue, events center boosters are exceeding the Tyson Center total by half again and aiming right at Qwest & Wells Fargo Center capacities.

That's substantiation for the assertion boosters want 'an events facility that deserves comparisons with the Qwest Center'.

And in regards to the opinions expressed about taxpayer willingness to pay for an events center, I refer you to the results of the last events center referendum. One that was tens of millions of dollars cheaper and didn't include an extra penny tax on groceries......

That's my substantiation....

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

this should not be about individuals who simply are trying to improve the prospects for a new entertainment venue in Sioux Falls.

Well, that depends. When you've got people who have become very good at attempting to dictate how public funds are spent (Krabbenhoft suggesting that the school board finance the Vikings training camp project is a fine example), you're going to have backlash.

Frankly, I don't think anyone's getting out of line by saying, "put your money where your mouth is."

If a 10,000-12,000 seat Arena matches what Sioux Falls can reasonably expect to bond & pay for without taxing potatoes and celery, then let those with the big dreams pay for the extra 5,000 seats.

---

Understand, I'm not against the idea of a 15,000 seat arena, but I find it ridiculous to expect a city of 150k to pay for 100% of a facility that is sized for a city of 200-250k.

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Well, that depends. When you've got people who have become very good at attempting to dictate how public funds are spent (Krabbenhoft suggesting that the school board finance the Vikings training camp project is a fine example), you're going to have backlash.

Frankly, I don't think anyone's getting out of line by saying, "put your money where your mouth is."

If a 10,000-12,000 seat Arena matches what Sioux Falls can reasonably expect to bond & pay for without taxing potatoes and celery, then let those with the big dreams pay for the extra 5,000 seats.

---

Understand, I'm not against the idea of a 15,000 seat arena, but I find it ridiculous to expect a city of 150k to pay for 100% of a facility that is sized for a city of 200-250k.

yeah I agree with you, what also kinda bothers me are the people that are pushing 15+ don't understand that the longer they push there pipedream the longer it will be before anything gets built....

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

yeah I agree with you, what also kinda bothers me are the people that are pushing 15+ don't understand that the longer they push there pipedream the longer it will be before anything gets built....

Well, it depends.

IMO it could pass if they did the following:

1) went to the legislature for reform of the BBB tax, and used BBB funds for bonding and the inevitable budget shortfalls (if the Skyforce & Stampede continue to use the old Arena, it'll be tough to make ends meet at the new one).

2) got firm commitments and dollar amounts for naming rights (including the new Howard Wood).

3) present a realistic operating budget estimate that acknowledges that it may struggle to turn a profit (people won't believe sunshine and rainbows estimates given the decade or so the Pavilion's been around).

[Jacked_Up]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Dana Dykhouse is a highly regarded civic and business leader in Sioux Falls. (Jacks' fans are fortunate that he is also a SDSU graduate and fan.) Kelby Krabbenhoft may stir controversy from time to time, but he is a visionary and influential community leader. (It's a shame that he'll be spending some of his future time in Fargo.) Any cause that starts with these two guys on its side, whether in the foreground or the background, has a running start.

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Dana Dykhouse is a highly regarded civic and business leader in Sioux Falls. (Jacks' fans are fortunate that he is also a SDSU graduate and fan.) Kelby Krabbenhoft may stir controversy from time to time, but he is a visionary and influential community leader. (It's a shame that he'll be spending some of his future time in Fargo.) Any cause that starts with these two guys on its side, whether in the foreground or the background, has a running start.

I understand that but I keep hearing from people of sioux falls is something in the lines of this...

We are going to pay for Kelby's playground with a sales tax that is regressive, when we could have parks, or improve roads or so on....