New Arena for Sioux Falls

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

is money the only thing really holding this up?

[MikeHenriksen]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

is money the only thing really holding this up?

What else is there?

[boxerboy]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

is money the only thing really holding this up?

Spoken by a college student that probably doesn't pay taxes. Your day will come Joeboo22.

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Spoken by a college student that probably doesn't pay taxes. Your day will come Joeboo22.

it will be paid by sales tax which anybody who buys anything pays..... What I am saying is they have decided where it will be, the general size and so on now its just a way to figure out how to fund it?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

it will be paid by sales tax which anybody who buys anything pays..... What I am saying is they have decided where it will be, the general size and so on now its just a way to figure out how to fund it?

Not sure if I would go that far. I think they have decided on where they would like it to be, but there is still quite a ways to go on the design of the building. I actually think the plan for how to pay for it is much more developed than the plan for the building. Problem is that they don't know if the state legislature will give them permission to use that funding mechanism.

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Or if the voters will support it.... (which they won't--very few sure things in life, I know, but the disdain of Sioux Falls voters in general for an event center funded by a tax on breakfast food is one of them)

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And there's still the issue of airport height restrictions. Don't know how tall this thing -needs- to be, but it can't be taller than the Sheraton, give or take a few feet.

[joeboo22]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

I know I don't live in Sioux Falls and a city tax would have little to no effect on me but here is what bothers me about Sioux Falls...

first of all Rapid City, Sioux City, Fargo, Omaha, Des Moines, and every other midwest city similar to size of Sioux Falls has a better facility then Sioux Falls and a newer one....

and second of all many (not all) of the people who complain about the taxes are the same ones that complain about how Sioux Falls doesn't get big concerts or other entertainment that a new facility would allow them to have....

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

And there's still the issue of airport height restrictions. Don't know how tall this thing -needs- to be, but it can't be taller than the Sheraton, give or take a few feet.

I think this is one of the design issues as they need to find out with much more precision as to how far down they can go.

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

first of all Rapid City, Sioux City, Fargo, Omaha, Des Moines, and every other midwest city similar to size of Sioux Falls has a better facility then Sioux Falls and a newer one....

and second of all many (not all) of the people who complain about the taxes are the same ones that complain about how Sioux Falls doesn't get big concerts or other entertainment that a new facility would allow them to have....

1) You have to understand how SF boosters see SF: They see SF as deserving big city amenities--including an events facility that deserves comparisons with the Qwest Center, not the Tyson Events Center or the Rushmore Plaza. Right now their reach, by far, exceeds their grasp.

2) That's an unsubstantiated generalization if ever I saw one. My take, as a 12 year resident of the city, is that the public wants, and will readily vote for infrastructure expenditures and family-friendly amenities.

A third penny sales tax, if directed toward, say the Lewis & Clark pipeline, flood control, etc. would likely pass.

A third penny sales tax intended to satiate the vanity of Kelby Krabbenhoft, T. Denny, and Dana Dykhouse will be roundly defeated under the populist/horse sense rationale of 'if they want it, let them pay for it themselves.'

Understand that there is a 'silent majority' of SF citizens that, while grateful for the jobs, does not care for the airs that Kelby & the Premier folks have assumed, nor do they care for the freeness with which they're willing to spend public funds.

[propar80]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

1) You have to understand how SF boosters see SF: They see SF as deserving big city amenities--including an events facility that deserves comparisons with the Qwest Center, not the Tyson Events Center or the Rushmore Plaza. Right now their reach, by far, exceeds their grasp.

2) That's an unsubstantiated generalization if ever I saw one. My take, as a 12 year resident of the city, is that the public wants, and will readily vote for infrastructure expenditures and family-friendly amenities.

A third penny sales tax, if directed toward, say the Lewis & Clark pipeline, flood control, etc. would likely pass.

A third penny sales tax intended to satiate the vanity of Kelby Krabbenhoft, T. Denny, and Dana Dykhouse will be roundly defeated under the populist/horse sense rationale of 'if they want it, let them pay for it themselves.'

Understand that there is a 'silent majority' of SF citizens that, while grateful for the jobs, does not care for the airs that Kelby & the Premier folks have assumed, nor do they care for the freeness with which they're willing to spend public funds.

I've lived in SF for about 5 years now and Zoo is correct in the way a lot of SF/SD residents think. This type of thinking will continue to keep SF and the rest of SD the 49 or 50 state to do everything for years to come. (SDSU's move to D-1, anyone??)
Until there's more "vane" thinkers in SF like Kelby Krabenhoft and Dana Dykhouse...SF will be always be just ahead of Sioux City and Rapid City.
Is it REALLY good enough...to just stay ahead of Sioux City and Rapid City?? Really, is it???

Just get something done already...at this point I think Dana and Kelby would say the same thing. And if the events center ends up like a Tyson events center that puts the city almost $1M in the red every year, while the FargoDome as of last year, is a revenue source for Fargo for years to come, Dana and Kelby can say..."told you so"...but you know they won't, because they don't have "Stu-qualities" which is why they're where they're at and Stu's where he's at.

And BTW...the SDSU/USD fb game in SF was dead the day an events center that could hold 20K for a football game was nixed if not before. Howard Wood hosting a SDSU/USD game....what a joke.

Go Jacks!!

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

I've lived in SF for about 5 years now and Zoo is correct in the way a lot of SF/SD residents think. This type of thinking will continue to keep SF and the rest of SD the 49 or 50 state to do everything for years to come. (SDSU's move to D-1, anyone??)
Until there's more "vane" thinkers in SF like Kelby Krabenhoft and Dana Dykhouse...SF will be always be just ahead of Sioux City and Rapid City.
Is it REALLY good enough...to just stay ahead of Sioux City and Rapid City?? Really, is it???

Just get something done already...at this point I think Dana and Kelby would say the same thing. And if the events center ends up like a Tyson events center that puts the city almost $1M in the red every year, while the FargoDome as of last year, is a revenue source for Fargo for years to come, Dana and Kelby can say..."told you so"...but you know they won't, because they don't have "Stu-qualities" which is why they're where they're at and Stu's where he's at.

And BTW...the SDSU/USD fb game in SF was dead the day an events center that could hold 20K for a football game was nixed if not before. Howard Wood hosting a SDSU/USD game....what a joke.

Go Jacks!!

Of course, SF continues to be a top place to raise kids and start a business..... so it's not like SD is 49th/50th in everything.

Kelby & Sanford don't want SF to stay 'just ahead' of Sioux City & Rapid City, but they want to use Sioux City & Rapid City's funding methods to pay for their grandiose dreams.

Frankly, it's not going to work. If they want an events center suitable for a 400k+ metro, they'll have to pony up a considerable amount of money up front or they'll have to wait until Sioux Falls is the core of a 400k+ metro.

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Know why the Fargodome returns revenue to Fargo? Because they've got a gigantic monster of a tenant. You think for a moment that Sioux Falls can duplicate the success of Fargo without a tenant like NDSU?

No way Jose.

A football friendly venue is beyond stupid, beyond idiotic, and in the end would be more of a black hole than any Tyson Center sized venue.

---------

Bottom line: Kelby, Denny, and Co. will need to INVEST HEAVILY in the grand future of Sioux Falls that they go on and on about.

Otherwise, SF isn't going to get decent venue until they have the population to support it.

[propar80]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Of course, SF continues to be a top place to raise kids and start a business..... so it's not like SD is 49th/50th in everything.

Kelby & Sanford don't want SF to stay 'just ahead' of Sioux City & Rapid City, but they want to use Sioux City & Rapid City's funding methods to pay for their grandiose dreams.

Frankly, it's not going to work. If they want an events center suitable for a 400k+ metro, they'll have to pony up a considerable amount of money up front or they'll have to wait until Sioux Falls is the core of a 400k+ metro.

--------

Know why the Fargodome returns revenue to Fargo? Because they've got a gigantic monster of a tenant. You think for a moment that Sioux Falls can duplicate the success of Fargo without a tenant like NDSU?

No way Jose.

A football friendly venue is beyond stupid, beyond idiotic, and in the end would be more of a black hole than any Tyson Center sized venue.

---------

Bottom line: Kelby, Denny, and Co. will need to INVEST HEAVILY in the grand future of Sioux Falls that they go on and on about.

Otherwise, SF isn't going to get decent venue until they have the population to support it.

Not going to argue with you Zoo...I've been on this board a long time and seen your posts long enough to know you've got more time on your hands to argue your point than all of SDSUFan.com posters combined, and that you're never wrong.

Just tell me two things and make sure you're HONEST with the first one:

1.) Were you for or against the D-1 move when it was announced by SDSU?

2.) How many "events" does NDSU use the FargoDome for per year?

Frankly, I don't give a rats-a$$ what kind of Events Center SF gets...I'll be spending all of my $$ for events up in Brookings at SDSU. Because I know we can all agree that there is no better value(even if I have to drive to Brookings twice/three times per week) than SDSU athletics. But don't degrade the fact that at least Kelby and Dana stuck their necks out and tried to bring something to SF to keep it on or above par with the surrounding towns of SF's size.

Oh...and I wanted to add a disclaimer...I have never been in favor of bringing the SDSU/USD game to SF...heck I'm one of those "hard-asses" that could care less if a team in red and white from Vermillion ever sees CAS again and vice versa.

Go Jacks!!

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

1.) Were you for or against the D-1 move when it was announced by SDSU?

I was for it. I didn't buy the whole "D-1 is just the Big 10 and Big 12" arguments that were bandied about. I knew there were more D-1 schools than D-2 schools and that if SDSU was a first rate D-2 school they'd be a respectable D-1 school.

2.) How many "events" does NDSU use the FargoDome for per year?

6 @ 18k per and an average expenditure (including concessions) of oh, say $25 per guest = about $2.7M. Fargodome revenue for 2008 was about $3.8M
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/artic...ate/177237.txt

Conservatively-------conservatively-----half of the Fargodome's revenue comes from the Bison.

Any questions?

But don't degrade the fact that at least Kelby and Dana stuck their necks out and tried to bring something to SF to keep it on or above par with the surrounding towns of SF's size.

Oh pfhaaagh. Who's sticking their necks out? All they did is say, "Wouldn't it be nice if the taxpayers of Sioux Falls built something we want?"

Anyone could do that.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

Quote from zooropa: 6 @ 18k per and an average expenditure (including concessions) of oh, say $25 per guest = about $2.7M. Fargodome revenue for 2008 was about $3.8M
.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, so only skim the remarks on this thread...but Z, are you telling me that the FargoDome got 6 x 18k x $25 or $2.7 million and NDSU got NONE of that. Come on, that doesn't add up. If it does, I would like to know where the Bison get the money for their football program (and other sports)?

[zooropa]

Re: New Arena for Sioux Falls

are you telling me that the FargoDome got 6 x 18k x $25 or $2.7 million and NDSU got NONE of that.

Depending on how the agreement is structured:

1) Fargodome pays $x to NDSU every year, collects 100% of the gate, concessions, attempts to turn a profit (similar to appearance fees for concerts).

2) NDSU pays $x to the Fargodome every year, collects 100% of the gate, concessions, etc., uses surplus to fund football program (similar to facility rental for trade shows)

3) Some combination of the two (e.g. NDSU gets gate, Fargodome gets concessions).

I would assume that the Bison rent the Fargodome and keep the gate, but doubt that they get the Fargodome cheap. In any event I would be surprised if the Bison accont for less than half the revenue at the Fargodome.