Sioux Falls Event Center

[joeboo22]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I have heard a lot of 12K work down there everyday and its no problem. I think people need to remember a few things. 1. is these people work there everyday. If you work somewhere everyday you get to know the ins and outs the short cuts and everything else to make it easier.

Second what happens when its the Summit League tournament or Thursday afternoon at the state basketball tournament or friday afternoon at the state wrestling tournament and you have a lot of people at work and at an event. Or what happens when SDSU plays NDSU/USD in the Summit League tournament at 6:30, SDSU's women have played the late afternoon game so you have people coming going and all sorts of kaos at the same time you have those 12K who work there everyday leaving from work?

The quality of drivers who you will have at these events going downtown. Like it or not but studies have shown 40-60% of the arena goers are out of towners. Its state wrestling or state basketball or the summit league do you really want my dad driving at night in downtown sioux falls? A few weeks ago when I was in SF for the baseball tournament I said I'll go downtown and see how hard it is, I got turned around 3 times ended up somewhere by Tea before I even knew where I was. And Tea isn't even anywhere close to downtown.

Now as far as profitability. I don't know a lot about spin-off development I think a lot of that is guessing. I think its hard to say the current site hasn't had any development because the largest growth in Sioux Falls has been the last 10-15 years which has been the same time people have been discussing a new arena and not always the current site. would you build right now if you didn't know for sure that the new arena wasn't going to be by the old one? However here is the thing, profitability on the facility is how often you can have the facility booked. When you have a facility that has 2-3X the floor space you can go after many more events, conventions or other ideas. I know people don't understand this but its like building a 2 bedroom house and then rather then building a 2 bedroom addition you build a 2 bedroom house somewhere else. Well you do have 4 bedrooms but you can only attract 2 bedroom customers for each facility. And for those who say they could use both facilities. Other then MAYBE some type of state basketball tournament I don't think that would work.

I have also heard a lot of passion of the BID people, no passion from the arena site people. Well if it was about passion we would have had President McCarthy, President McGovern, President Buchanan, President Ron Paul, President Sarah Palin, President Dennis Kucinich, and on an on and on. Just because you have 15-20% of the population that is louder and more passionate then the rest of the group doesn't mean that you are entitled to getting your way.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

A few weeks ago when I was in SF for the baseball tournament I said I'll go downtown and see how hard it is, I got turned around 3 times ended up somewhere by Tea before I even knew where I was. And Tea isn't even anywhere close to downtown.

Joeboo, you ended up in Tea? If this is true, that is hilarious.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

how often you can have the facility booked

Terri Ellis-Schmidt flat out said that the AECOM projections were unrealistic, and she would know.

if it was about passion we would have had President McCarthy

Flawed comparison. 20% of the electorate is undecided about the issue and about the same amount are flat opposed to a new arena. Joe McCarthy was never that close to being elected to national office (BTW: those candidates you named, with the possible exception of McGovern, could only dream of having 20% of the electorate passionately supporting them).

[LakeJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Parking at the Arena will be a problem. They are adding 12,000 seats and 800 parking spots. Neither solution is 'ideal' from a parking perspective.

And as for the 'who cares about out-of-towners', I absolutely stand by that remark.

Consider Joe Blow from East Overshoe. He wants to come to Sioux Falls, go to the Shania Twain concert and leave immediately afterward. He decides not to come because 'it's downtown!'

I have one question:

Where else is he going to see Shania Twain?

And I have one observation:

$45 ticket * .06 = $2.70

$25 in beer and lousy arena food * .08 = $2.00

$6 value meal from BK on his way out of town (which would require a detour since there aren't even any FAST FOOD restaurants between the Arena in I-29/Russell or I-29/Madison St) * .08 = .48

By placing the events center downtown, Sioux Falls has just cheated itself out of (gasp) $5.18 in tax revenue.

To place that in perspective, it would take 23,166,023 "Joe Blows" to pay for the arena. That's 772,201 Joe Blows per year on a 30 year bond, or 2,116 Joe Blows per day for 30 years to pay for the arena.

Do you understand why I consider that particular visitor to be of limited value?

Joe will see her in Sioux City, Brookings, or Fargo just like he does today. The good acts skip Sioux Falls now and they will skip Sioux Falls with a downtown event center.

Unless you and your downtown buddies are going to go to every show chances are you will need out of towners to fill up your arena no matter where you put it.

Your statement that I bolded tells me all I need to now about your opinion on this subject.

How much land do your friends own downtown?

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

You don't want to debate me

Agreed. It makes everyone dumber.

Take this advice, people.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

My clients own about $15M in property downtown. I doubt that I'll get any additional work from any of them if an events center is built downtown. It's not so much that I support the downtown events center as I am irked by the specious reasons that are offered against it.

So Joe Blow will drive farther (Sioux City/Fargo) in order to avoid downtown Sioux Falls? I don't think so. Not to mention this arena will be significantly larger than the Tyson Center and will be able to outbid it for concerts.

And, again, I think it's odd that people have such a horror of placing the arena in a location where it will generate a significant amount of property tax revenue.

[joeboo22]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Joeboo, you ended up in Tea? If this is true, that is hilarious.

well I got turned around missed a turn ended up south of town on a gravel hit a county turned west ended up on hwy 11 ( I think) which said Tea 2 miles south. Yeah I can't drive in cities at night, the sad thing is I drive better in cities at night then a lot of people I know

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I can't drive in cities at night

Here's a tip, country boy

Cleveland, Cliff, Minnesota, Western, Louise, and Marion are all N-S section roads. Kiwanis runs N-S on a half-section line.

60th St. N., Benson Road, Maple St., Madison, 10th St., 26th St., 41st St., and 57th St. are E-W section roads.

Rice and Russell are exceptions that run E-W on 'half section' lines.

If you're on any one of those roads, there's a strong likelihood that 1) you're headed in a cardinal direction and 2) you'll come across one or more of those other section roads. And every one of them except Kiwanis and 57th St. will take you to an interstate.

[joeboo22]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

When I go to events at the current site I generally go to the mall also, which is pretty easy to get to from the current site. I see a lot of the people I see at the arena there as well. I here a lot of the don't care about out of towners. Many of them go to the mall before or after depending on the time of the event they are attending. Many of them have a job/real life so they can't spend all day in Sioux falls shopping but if they can stop by for 30 minutes before hand they can. If the arena was down town would they have the time.

Good example would be the Summit League baseball tournament game. I came home from work, took a shower came to Sioux Falls ran to the mall bought the ESPN book and got to the baseball game just as the national anthem was playing. If the birdcage hadn't been where it was I would have ordered the book online. Same thing for the SL basketball tournament I came to Sioux Falls had to buy a shirt so I went to the mall and then went to the arena and bought my ticket for the game, with not a lot of time to spare.

I think this people will come early, stay late go shopping downtown eat there and all of that is pie in the sky. People in South Dakota care about convenience. Like it or not its true. The mall is going to make you more money then downtown ever will. IMHO moving the arena downtown would hurt the mall, maybe not a lot but enough.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I went to the mall and then went to the arena and bought my ticket for the game, with not a lot of time to spare.

This is a valid concern, and it was a lack of foresight on the part of the city in that there's no 'easy' connector between the SW and downtown.

However, it does not take a significantly longer period of time to reach downtown from the mall vs. the Arena. Especially if you drive all the way up to the Russell St. exit.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I think it's a whole lot of arguing for two sights that are probably only 2 miles apart.I would hate to see what they've already built at the Arena sight go to waste if they build the "new" Events Center downtown.I've seen it happen with the Western Mall and the "new" Empire Mall.The Western Mall was thriving and lots of people shopped there,until they opened the Empire Mall (only about a mile apart)The Western Mall was never as vibrant as it was after the Empire Mall opened.If they connect the new Events Center to the Convention center,with the Arena on the other end, you'll have a very large,quite nice sports and Convention Center in my opinion.You can also have multiple sporting events at the same time,as long as the Arena remains in good shape.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I think it's a whole lot of arguing for two sights that are probably only 2 miles apart.I would hate to see what they've already built at the Arena sight go to waste if they build the "new" Events Center downtown.I've seen it happen with the Western Mall and the "new" Empire Mall.The Western Mall was thriving and lots of people shopped there,until they opened the Empire Mall (only about a mile apart)The Western Mall was never as vibrant as it was after the Empire Mall opened.If they connect the new Events Center to the Convention center,with the Arena on the other end, you'll have a very large,quite nice sports and Convention Center in my opinion.You can also have multiple sporting events at the same time,as long as the Arena remains in good shape.

Tearing down the Western Mall and putting the events center there would be better than putting it at the arena.

---

I think you can make the arena site work, but it would take a significant investment by the city to do so. You need to create a 'neighborhood' around the arena, and that requires pursuing expensive parking solutions, not 'pave more acres', it requires investing in streetscaping, pedestrian access ways, incentivized redevelopment, and a multitude of other community redevelopment efforts.

If you don't go 'all-in' on the arena site, if you don't create a 'neighborhood', you might as well not do it at all.

Because so much of the support of the Arena site seems to revolve around how much cheaper it will be to build there, I have my doubts that a comprehensive neighborhood redevelopment program will be undertaken, and (therefore) the arena site will be just as windswept and barren after the center is constructed as it is now.

[LakeJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

With site settled, city turns to $100M events center question


http://www.argusleader.com/article/20110615/NEWS/106150316/With-site-settled-city-turns-100M-events-center-question

[Nidaros]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Looks like we got some think to keep the board active during this off season. I really don't have an opinion on this matter. I did like the downtown option since it would have an east-west access route across Sioux Falls. I find getting to east part of SF a pain using 26th street that does not run to I-29. I-229 seems to make people waste gas, if you are at a point in west SF and want to go to a location in east SF.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Joe will see her in Sioux City, Brookings, or Fargo just like he does today. The good acts skip Sioux Falls now and they will skip Sioux Falls with a downtown event center.

Unless you and your downtown buddies are going to go to every show chances are you will need out of towners to fill up your arena no matter where you put it.

Your statement that I bolded tells me all I need to now about your opinion on this subject.

How much land do your friends own downtown?

Just logged in again. Wow, I may have created a monster. As to the bolded, "you serious Clark?" That's an absolutely outrageous statement. I've cited your post for that proposition only, so the rest of this isn't directed at your post.


I agree with nearly everything Zooropa has said. He is well-informed on this subject and seems to have actually read the AECOM study. I'm sorry, but SF shouldn't be building an event center to cater to a crowd that plans to head to the mall beforehand and grab a sandwich at Arby's before they get there and then escape town immediately afterward. Its sad to see Sioux Falls shoot itself in the foot on this deal.


As for parking downtown, why is it so hard for people to pay $1-2 into a meter for over 2 hours of parking? Heck, you'd pay about 50 cents if you get there at 5 PM. Plus there is a ton of free parking. Have a look around. Why is it so hard for people to look for a parking spot? Why is it so hard to take five minutes at most to plan ahead and find a good place to park? There is so much parking downtown its unbelievable. Why is it that South Dakotans have to be able to see the place where they are walking in order for it to be "a good parking spot"?

Scenario:

Arena site - Man, I have to park like 8 blocks away for the state track meet, but at least I can see Howard Wood from here.

Downtown site - Man I have to park around this corner and there is a big building in my way, and I can't see where I'm going even though its only a couple blocks? Man, I'll never come back here again.

That is the exact picture that has been drawn by arguments against downtown parking. Simply amazing. Even considering the pay to park issues, there would be more parking built with the downtown EC. Its not as if the only parking available is what is available now!