Sioux Falls Event Center

[KUlawJack]

Thoughts on Mayor Huether's tie-splitting vote?

I'm not surprised by the outcome. However, I am seriously disappointed to say the least.

I won't be voting for it at the Arena site - too much money to invest in a project that will never recoup the investment. Its like throwing scraps of paper (money) into a (very long, dirty, plugged-up) drain and seeing if the paper will reappear on the other end, and if it does and hasn't disintegrated, whether it brings more paper with it. Insanity.

[jacks1]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

There wasn't one official study done that showed downtown would be the best option...not one. Truthfully, I don't really care where it's built, as long as it's built. What frustrates me is the BID people and their "...I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude. That is why Sioux Falls Metro has 150,000+ people and a piece of s##t nearly 50 year old arena...

[LakeJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

There wasn't one official study done that showed downtown would be the best option...not one. Truthfully, I don't really care where it's built, as long as it's built. What frustrates me is the BID people and their "...I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude. That is why Sioux Falls Metro has 150,000+ people and a piece of s##t nearly 50 year old arena...

Yup, what he said.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Thoughts on Mayor Huether's tie-splitting vote?

I'm not surprised by the outcome. However, I am seriously disappointed to say the least.

I won't be voting for it at the Arena site - too much money to invest in a project that will never recoup the investment. Its like throwing scraps of paper (money) into a (very long, dirty, plugged-up) drain and seeing if the paper will reappear on the other end, and if it does and hasn't disintegrated, whether it brings more paper with it. Insanity.

Curious as to why you think the arena site is bad?

Like Jacks1 and LakeJack said, not one study said to build it downtown. Would have been an absolute traffic nightmare. Gotta trust the experts who preformed the study.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I respect your opinions but wholeheartedly disagree with your assessments. Have a look at those studies and see if the calculation of parking was fair. It was ridiculously biased. Have a look at the development money. Its staggering how much more development will occur downtown than at the Arena site. Have a look at the number of conventions they expect to host now because of this - those numbers were absurd and the main basis for many arguments in favor. No way they get 34 new conventions per year. People associated with building the convention center testified last night about how big a mistake that place was. Furthermore, the Argus Leader articles on this subject were incredibly lacking. The Argus chose to be the mouthpiece of the Mayor. Did anyone watch the discussion last night? That should say a whole lot.

If you honestly think that people like BID are the reason that SF has a 50-year old arena and only 150,000, I will just kindly disagree with you. There is absolutely no correlation there. I'm thinking that after this gets voted down in November 2011, because the mayor wants to rush it, you'll see a renewed push for downtown backed by a significant informational campaign.

Again, there is no way I'll vote for the Arena site. If that's "taking my ball and going home" so be it. I'm not associated with BID even. I'd rather have us take another couple years and get it right for the next 50 then deal with the exact same circumstances in 50 years that we are now.

EDIT: Sorry for the hurried post - I'll lay out more details in the near future, but gotta go for now.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

One other quick point, the 2005 task force on the event center unaniously recommended downtown. Can't say "no study" has ever said DT was not the best option. Enteman chaired the site selection committee unfortunately after that and we know where he stands. Also, here are some numbers:500 million in planned development downtown; additional development of 51 million.Arena site - 6 million.That alone should be enough. As for traffic, my quck google search on my phone shows a negligible difference in distance to interstate access. Plus there are many ways to get to multiple locations on 229. Only one logical location from the arena. The traffic idea is lost on me. I work in DT. Its very easy to get around.

[slosho]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

My thoughts on this... And feel free to quote me: distance is not a reasonable measure of traffic in SD. If I ask you how far it is from sioux falls to minneapolis what is your answer? Was it in miles or hours? Probably the later. The fastest interstate access would drive by the arena site... (real world not google maps...)People in sd DO NOT want to: 1.) Pay for parking 2.) Walk much further then.they have to for the current arena site. Here's a "for instance" approximately a month ago I partook in a SD symphony concert... the closest I could park for free (see note 1.) Was behind the shrine mosque (not convenient)Have you ever tried to park downtown @ 2pm on a weekday a la summit tourney.... The parking would be atrocious. And if a parking ramp is the answer it better be included in the price of admission.Lastly... The DT ppl need to work on their merchandising skills, they are currently only a brief drive from the current arena site. However I have yet to see any major push to get me to venture away from the businesses in the immediate area that already cater to my interests and needs.Personally both sites are not preferred. I agree with kulawjscks assement of the economic impact of the DT site. But for me, (a non-sf resident, but a sf boy from birth, WHS grad) the option of traversing DT SF. Does not seem appealing. Build it either on the 29 90 junction or marion rd 90 junction... Then they would have to build everything around it, what would be the economic impact then?

Sure DT is easy to get around, but it pales in comparison to russell (see 50 mph speeds and a max of 5 stoplights vs. downtown plus that and 2 more traffic lights...)end

[Jacks-02]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I can't imagine what traffic and parking would be like downtown with a packed house SDSU/USD Summit League tourney game. It's one thing to say there is enough parking downtown for evening events, quite another for a weekday daytime event like that would be.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I have roamed around downtown Minneapolis (around the Target Center and Target Field area). I have also roamed around in the downtown area of Rochester Minnesota (around the Mayo Civic Center area). Both have multiple parking ramps and they are connected to those facilities by skywalks. In Sioux Falls, it could be a several block walk in bitter cold and icy wind - outside becuase there are not skywalks. Yes the parking may have estimated poorly in Sioux Falls, but it was probably estimated on the generous side of reality.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

1) The AECOM study did not recommend the Arena site. Their points system assigned both location the same score. The most recent, most comprehensive study did NOT recommend the Arena site either. And THAT study assigned an equal weight due to the outlandish prediction that the convention center + events center would draw 119,000 additional convention center users per year.

2) 12,000 people work downtown. Every day 12,000 people enter and exit downtown at roughly the same time. What's the planned capacity of this events center again?

3) People's anecdotal experience, comparing 18,000 people downtown for automania vs. 6,000 at the Arena for a Summit League tournament game are of limited value. I live downtown. I have lived downtown for over a decade. I probably know more about traffic in downtown Sioux Falls than anyone else on this board. It's typically useless information, but it has value here. I know what traffic looks like before and after parades. It takes about a half an hour for downtown to empty out. You'll see similar numbers for a much smaller crowd at the Arena.

4) Regarding the inconvenience factor of paying for parking and dealing with one-way streets and parking ramps:

People will adapt.

We all figured out how to use SPUIs after they replaced the 10th St./I-229 interchange. We figured out double left turn lanes after they put one in at 41st and Minnesota. We figured out parking ramps after they put them in at the hospitals and downtown.

5) Regarding interstate access:

I don't care.

The purpose of this events center is not to get someone from Chamberlain into Sioux Falls and out of Sioux Falls as quickly as possible.

We're not talking about a drive thru window at a fast food restaurant here.

This thing is going to cost $120M. With no disrespect intended toward rural residents around Sioux Falls, the 6% sales tax they'll pay on the ticket and the 8% they'll pay on food and drink in the arena is NOT going to pay the bills, therefore it should NOT be a primary consideration. This facility will be paid for primarily by Sioux Falls residents and economic benefits to the city of Sioux Falls need to be the primary consideration here.

I can't fathom this notion that a building will fail if people cannot access it and exit it with a minimal investment of brainpower (right on Western, left on Russell, right on the I-29 ramp, BOOM! I don't have to think anymore!!!)..... Sioux Falls has a higher population than any five east river counties outside the Metro. The ease of access question for out-of-towners is just not valid. No disrespect to them, but if they're not paying for it--and they won't be paying for it--then they have no say in it.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

What's more, this thing is going to fail at the polls because nobody cares enough for the arena site to get out and fight for it.

I dropped by the meeting last night, and if there was one thing that was readily apparent, it was the degree of passion that the BID people have for the subject.

Had the downtown site been recommended, these people would have freely donated time and effort to promote this facility, to promote a yes vote.

Do not under estimate the power of a passionate and motivated group of people on an issue where about one out of every five people are undecided.

The Arena supporters, by and large, were incapable of articulating a 'vision' other than 'easy access to the interstate' and 'it's cheaper!!' Frankly, the first argument is of dubious value to Sioux Falls residents and the second is trumped by 'don't build it' which is the cheapest solution of all.

---

I think this will fail at the polls because it is ridiculous to expect the BID people to put all this passion into promoting the Arena site.........






If the city wants to make the Arena site work they are going to have to invest a fortune building a 'neighborhood' out there in order to spur *any* real add-on development, which is deliciously ironic, given the amount of bulldozing and paving that the city has done over the past 30 years out there in an effort to secure plenty of cheap parking while thoroughly stripping the site of ANY sense of place.


And finally, I think it is worth noting that not a single elected official that participated in the Convention Center debate 15 years ago came out in support of the Arena site.

[LakeJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

SF Sports Authority On Board With Events Center Site

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=116749

[leeshajo]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

seriously, I am waiting for Lincoln county to get it together and build it out in the 70th street area... close to the malls, where development is going naturally anyway.....

[LakeJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

seriously, I am waiting for Lincoln county to get it together and build it out in the 70th street area... close to the malls, where development is going naturally anyway.....

That would work better then downtown also.

[LakeJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

My thoughts on this... And feel free to quote me: distance is not a reasonable measure of traffic in SD. If I ask you how far it is from sioux falls to minneapolis what is your answer? Was it in miles or hours? Probably the later. The fastest interstate access would drive by the arena site... (real world not google maps...)People in sd DO NOT want to: 1.) Pay for parking 2.) Walk much further then.they have to for the current arena site. Here's a "for instance" approximately a month ago I partook in a SD symphony concert... the closest I could park for free (see note 1.) Was behind the shrine mosque (not convenient)Have you ever tried to park downtown @ 2pm on a weekday a la summit tourney.... The parking would be atrocious. And if a parking ramp is the answer it better be included in the price of admission.Lastly... The DT ppl need to work on their merchandising skills, they are currently only a brief drive from the current arena site. However I have yet to see any major push to get me to venture away from the businesses in the immediate area that already cater to my interests and needs.Personally both sites are not preferred. I agree with kulawjscks assement of the economic impact of the DT site. But for me, (a non-sf resident, but a sf boy from birth, WHS grad) the option of traversing DT SF. Does not seem appealing. Build it either on the 29 90 junction or marion rd 90 junction... Then they would have to build everything around it, what would be the economic impact then?

Sure DT is easy to get around, but it pales in comparison to russell (see 50 mph speeds and a max of 5 stoplights vs. downtown plus that and 2 more traffic lights...)end

That would be ok also. Anywhere but downtown. Bottom line, no parking and hard to get to.