New Dorms and Dining

[JimmyJack]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

1)

And I think the older dorms look pretty good with the new windows in them. If you haven't seen them recently, drive by and look at them. The inserts under the windows are now dark brown, to match the window frames. They look much, much better.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

And I think the older dorms look pretty good with the new windows in them. If you haven't seen them recently, drive by and look at them. The inserts under the windows are now dark brown, to match the window frames. They look much, much better.

I'll have to do that.

To appreciate how well designed the SDSU dorms are, you really need to look at buildings like Reed Johnson Hall. Just as austere, but with no sense of proportion, of balance between elements.

And with Modernism, all you've got is proportion and balance. You can't hide behind tacked on gewgaws.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Seriously, who gives a crap what the buildings look like.

Do your socks match?

Do you wash your car?

Do you (or did you) at least try to dress nice when going on a date?

Why, in short, do you give a crap about what you look like? What your car looks like? What your house looks like?

For the exact same reason why architecture matters.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

You want ugly residence halls? Berg/Bailey & Caldwell fit the bill.

They are also some of the first residence halls to fill each year as students give their preferences. Do you think the new residence halls were designed to attract and please architecture critics or prospective students? That is why they held focus groups with current and prospective students, because that is the demographic they were trying to attract. You say focus groups don't replace talent, but that architectural talent doesn't fill the halls and pay for them - students do.

I'm all for having a beautiful campus, but you have to design and build halls in spaces were students are going to want to live. These buildings not only fund a good portion of the University, but also are a major recruiting tool. Who cares if the halls cap a city street like Hansen Hall. Student don't care and that is why Hansen and Waneta are the last halls to fill every year...students want to live close to the Union, their classes, the Wellness Center, etc. That's why these halls are being built where they are. Students are attracted to and want to live in something different and unique from everything else they see. They want choices...and these new halls will give them that.

These new halls look very nice (even if they don't match Young, Brown, or Mathews Hall), and the interior features of them (what students really care about) are extremely nice. They will be a welcomed and much needed addition to campus.

[SidelineObserver]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Do your socks match? No, one's a bit longer than the other. And one is a bit browner too.

Do you wash your car? Heck nah, I let God wash it for me with his rain.

Do you (or did you) at least try to dress nice when going on a date? Nope again. Take me as I am.

Why, in short, do you give a crap about what you look like? Why worry what I look like? It's not a significant factor in if I am in or not in. What your car looks like? I picked the first thing that I saw actually. What your house looks like? I live in apartment because it's cheaper

For the exact same reason why architecture matters. Architecture matters so people like you can complain about it.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

They are also some of the first residence halls to fill each year

Exactly my point.

I don't object to the SIZE of these new dorms, to the PLACEMENT of these new dorms, to the PROGRAM of these new dorms, to the FEATURES of these new dorms.

I object to the DESIGN of these new dorms.

And, since, as you've just pointed out, students put features ahead of design, the DESIGN could have paid tribute to its context instead of trying to shout over it.

As can be seen by the Avera building, the new buildings would hardly have to be carbon copies of existing buildings in order to respect them.

Instead of something refreshingly modern, SDSU is getting a watered down PoMo revival of Collegiate Gothic--something that the school intentionally avoided when it was current.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Architecture matters so people like you can complain about it.

Yeah. Because detailed praise of Spitz's buildings = complaining.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Exactly my point.

I don't object to the SIZE of these new dorms, to the PLACEMENT of these new dorms, to the PROGRAM of these new dorms, to the FEATURES of these new dorms.

I object to the DESIGN of these new dorms.

And, since, as you've just pointed out, students put features ahead of design, the DESIGN could have paid tribute to its context instead of trying to shout over it.

As can be seen by the Avera building, the new buildings would hardly have to be carbon copies of existing buildings in order to respect them.

Instead of something refreshingly modern, SDSU is getting a watered down PoMo revival of Collegiate Gothic--something that the school intentionally avoided when it was current.

Do you argue with your shadow too?

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

1)
3) Grove Hall isn't being demoed--look at the renderings.

I give it five years. It will soon be a green area. Probably with a couple of soccer nets, a basketball court, and a new sand volleyball pit.

As for focus groups not mattering... tell that to the nearly 100 students from all different colleges that had a say in how this residence hall looked. They are the ones paying nearly $11,000 per year to call this campus there home. Sometimes its just easiest to be stuck in the past and be okay with the status quo. SDSU has decided that progress is not a bad thing, maybe its time for others to realize that.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

As for focus groups not mattering

Focus groups matter.

No one in any field of design should ignore the thoughts and wishes of end users.

But focus group limitations are perfectly captured by this remark of Henry Ford's, "If I asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'a faster horse.'"

In short, focus groups will not do your thinking for you.

Sometimes its just easiest to be stuck in the past and be okay with the status quo. SDSU has decided that progress is not a bad thing, maybe its time for others to realize that.

Again, as may be reasonably inferred from my praise of the Avera building, respect for context is hardly inimical with 'progress.' While I have misgivings about aspects of the Union remodel that was completed a few years ago, it also respects its context.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Do you argue with your shadow too?

First of all, my shadow agrees with me about most things

Secondly, what would you have me do instead? Pretend that I like choices that were made when I do not? Refuse to answer points raised by people I disagree with? I should 'go with the flow'? I should consider myself barred from expressing dissent?

There are things in this debate that are indisputable and there are things that may be disputed.

If you have an issue with what I've said, say it. If you don't wish to continue the discussion, then stop responding.

I assure you I would love to engage in a discussion of this project on its merits, on the aspects of it that I particularly disagree with--not on ancillary issues (such as the quality of accommodations in Hansen Hall--admittedly bad), or irrelevant factors (the style of accommodations in the new facility).

[JimmyJack]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

And with Modernism, all you've got is proportion and balance. You can't hide behind tacked on gewgaws.

Excellent points, Zoo. And if I had rep to give you, I would, just for using "gewgaws".

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

BTW: I don't come here to argue (contrary to some allegations) however, if my idea of 'spirited discussion' is taken to be 'arguing' by others, I'll try to tone it down.

[Kemo]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Grove Hall might be my most hated building on campus! Not only does it seem out of place (a 1 storied class room building sandwiched between residential halls), but mainly because every class I have ever had at that building has been horrible! Calculus was one of them, and that speaks for itself, but being stuck in Grove Hall's confines for 3 hours at a time for Drawing 101 just about drove me mad! Imagine drawing eggs (yes, eggs) for 2 straight class periods and using the following class period to critique each others' drawings. It's a minor miracle that I didn't start doing hard drugs after this traumatic experience.

[zooropa]

Re: New Dorms and Dining

Grove Hall might be my most hated building on campus! Not only does it seem out of place (a 1 storied class room building sandwiched between residential halls), but mainly because every class I have ever had at that building has been horrible! Calculus was one of them, and that speaks for itself, but being stuck in Grove Hall's confines for 3 hours at a time for Drawing 101 just about drove me mad! Imagine drawing eggs (yes, eggs) for 2 straight class periods and using the following class period to critique each others' drawings. It's a minor miracle that I didn't start doing hard drugs after this traumatic experience.

The layout's horrible (since it's a converted dining hall), I've gotten lost in that building and despite being back for several art department functions, I don't think I've seen all of it.

The painting and printmaking studios are in the old kitchen, and all of the classrooms surrounding it are--aside from the nice big windows--poorly suited for studio work.

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As for sketching the eggs-----I guess it's an art thing. With the right lighting drawing eggs will teach you about shading, as there should be black blacks and white whites, and all the shades in between. Often students learning to draw will be too timid--they won't make their blacks black enough, and will focus too much on capturing the shape and not enough on the shades (I can think of three professors off the top of my head that made that point while working with me)

Of course it always helps to let the students know why they're drawing eggs, but--alas--such useful info is not always provided.