More bad news

[hareball]

Re: More bad news

We are getting what we voted for. Need to remember this come next election.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: More bad news

We are getting what we voted for. Need to remember this come next election.

Dont think it matters. Rep or Dem. They are all the same and only care about themselves and their party. They dont give a rats butt about us.

[JackJD]

Re: More bad news

Well, can't ignore the fact that there's just no money. An honest debate can be had about what should be done when there's no money. But, I suppose we should avoid discussing politics on a fan message board.

[22jack]

Re: More bad news

Theres no money because our tax structure is broke. That is what they need to fix.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: More bad news

This is kinda off topic, but I'm taking classes at BHSU and the RC University Center as well as online classes through USD & SDSU. Does that mean I'm part of all 4's enrollment?

I agree with you that something needs to happen to DSU, and I don't want to close it.

Yes Joeboo, you count as part of an FTE for each.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: More bad news

Theres no money because our tax structure is broke. That is what they need to fix.

IMO, a state in which three of the major products of the largest industry at or near all time high prices and profit margins should not have the budget mess we currently see.

[bigticket1]

Re: More bad news

Theres no money because our tax structure is broke. That is what they need to fix.

Usually reading the comments on articles in the Argus make my head numb,but there was one that I read last night that hit home - "It's time for the people to take control of the situation and let our elected leaders know that the future of this state is more than providing the least amount of service for the least amount of money."

[Nidaros]

Re: More bad news

Usually reading the comments on articles in the Argus make my head numb,but there was one that I read last night that hit home - "It's time for the people to take control of the situation and let our elected leaders know that the future of this state is more than providing the least amount of service for the least amount of money."

I second this post.

The Argus has a big article today about what President Chicone has in mind in replacing these cuts. Good thinking on his part and listening to the staff for finding a way to replace the cuts. Also mention of UW and being able to operate without the BOR control. Also keeping some of the revenue that SDSU takes in the form of tuition.

I have been a big advocate of keeping all six institutions of higher learning because of the regional approach in having a institution nearby for nearly every one, but I am beginning to see the financial drain these other institutions have on SDSU. Its getting very interesting.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/2...news|text|Home

[filbert]

Re: More bad news

Some points to ponder, going forward:

What if "the least amount of service for the least amount of money" is what the majority of people in the state actually do want?

In politics, you can better predict a person's reactions to proposals by, instead of saying "let's use our money to . . ." saying "let me use your money to . . ." This makes persuasion rather than coercion the goal of the political discussion. This would also, incidentally, be a pallative for the whole "civility" thing. For instance, "You ignorant dolts, agree with ME!" is seldom an effective debate tactic (as tempting is it often is when discussing political issues with someone who diametrically--perhaps on a fundamental philosophical basis--disagrees with you).

Higher education throughout the country is in serious trouble--the reigning model that's been built up especially in the 1900's has probably reached its terminal phase. More and more people are referring to it as one of the next economic "bubbles" that will pop. That's a big fat red flashing warning sign. A new higher education model will eventually arise. Given SD's higher education resource issues (I'm rather proud of how delicately I put that) the state may want to seriously consider being in the front rank of places re-engineering the entire higher education concept. And no, I don't know what that means. Nobody does. Yet.

My personal observation and belief is that we are entering into a period--maybe the next 20 years--where a LOT of things will be changing--there's a whole raft of institutions and societal processes we've built up over the past century or more, which for a wide variety of reasons have become inefficient or unsustainable. Change is coming.

South Dakota has traditionally changed very reluctantly--all in all, viewing the mess that many other states have worked themselves into, I think that probably nets out to be a strength of the state, not a weakness. In a sense, both the cuts to higher education in the state, and the reaction to those cuts are reflections of that fundamental conservative nature of South Dakotans. Change is hard. And usually, people won't change until they absolutely, positively have no other choice--that's just human nature. And institutions are just collections of individuals.

In times of change, it's really important to come to a clear notion of What I Really Want. Then it's a matter of putting that list into a priority order, because as the Rolling Stones said, "you can't always get what you want." The main thing that the people of South Dakota need to do is come to a clear consensus on the things, in priority order, that they expect SDSU and the rest of the BOR institutions to do, and then fund those organizations to do those things.

Ideas like Chicoine expresses of greater autonomy of the state universities from state control are probably ideas whose time has come. Maybe something like a model where state funding for higher education becomes attached primarily to state residents as a grant or voucher, for purposes of attending in-state colleges, rather than the funding going directly to the schools, and then separate state contracts to perform other functions that the state finds important (a contract to perform ag research, a contract to run a med school, etc., etc.), might have the effect of freeing the universities from the state authority they find so odious.

IMHO investing energy into restoring what was will be worse than a waste of energy, it will be actively counterproductive. Instead, energy invested in seeking new ways of doing what the people of the state really want done will, again IMHO, be the more fruitful path.

Some close friends of mine at SDSU were told their contracts are not being renewed. Some of them constitute a large part of the reason why I return to Brookings to go to basketball games. I don't know right now if I'll keep my season tickets for basketball. I don't know right now if, in the long run, I'll keep running this board, or if I'll walk away from it the way SDSU walked away from my friends.

It's time for people to decide what's really, really important to them. And then talk to other people about that, not shout at them that MY important stuff is more important than YOUR important stuff. Convince, not coerce.

I didn't start out writing a book, so apologies for the length of this core-dump. Carry on.

[MikeHenriksen]

Re: More bad news

Well thought out and well written. However, civil discussion of issues is not going to make a comeback I am afraid. It has a lot to do with the lableing and anonymity that has become the norm rather than the exception.

We have many more ways to communicate than we used to, but we are worse at it than ever.

[Nidaros]

Re: More bad news

Filbert:
I can not give you rep points for a while, but would give them for your very well thought out points. I hope you will continue coming to Brookings for BB game and will continue this board. The forcast for the future is somewhat gloomy but one that I sense myself and makes me think of a phrase from my younger days of radio only and what was often said as the Lone Ranger and Tonto got the goods on the bad guys and the bad guys often said. "Lets get out of here, every man for himself."

[Prairiehaas]

Re: More bad news

IMHO issues Dr. Chicoine expressed are only half of the problem. The need for change in Higher Ed is well recognized though the specific solutions may not yet be fully developed.

The other, and likely more difficult, half of the proble is our antiquated tax structure. A significant portion of taxes collected are sales tax. This revenue stream is not as robust as in previous years. Internet sales have, and will continue to cut into sales tax revenues. This is a problem that will need to be addressed.

Meanwhile, a few facts that South Dakotans should keep in mind. Even though SD has near the lowest average wage in the USA, our tax burden is also near the lowest. The result is that South Dakotans are near the USA median in per capita disposable income.

This leads me to believe that a solution to the budget and funding issues can be found. Quite possibly by asking the users of government services to pay a larger portion of those services. Of course, my belief could be blown up by increasing ununded mandates out of DC.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: More bad news

IMHO issues Dr. Chicoine expressed are only half of the problem. The need for change in Higher Ed is well recognized though the specific solutions may not yet be fully developed.

The other, and likely more difficult, half of the proble is our antiquated tax structure. A significant portion of taxes collected are sales tax. This revenue stream is not as robust as in previous years. Internet sales have, and will continue to cut into sales tax revenues. This is a problem that will need to be addressed.

Meanwhile, a few facts that South Dakotans should keep in mind. Even though SD has near the lowest average wage in the USA, our tax burden is also near the lowest. The result is that South Dakotans are near the USA median in per capita disposable income.

This leads me to believe that a solution to the budget and funding issues can be found. Quite possibly by asking the users of government services to pay a larger portion of those services. Of course, my belief could be blown up by increasing ununded mandates out of DC.

Agree with a lot of what you said.

While I'm sure internet sales have caused some downturn, I think the biggest change in our tax base has been the reform of the credit card/banking industry. I've heard that the new regulations to this industry has caused the State of SD 30-40 million dollars in lost tax revenue (through Credit Card companies in our state) each of the last two years. Now, one can debate until they are blue in the face the positives and negatives of these reforms, and I'm not here to do that. But when the State was facing approximately a 120 million dollar budget shortfall this year, and nearly 75 million of that would have been available previously from one industry, that seems to me where the problem lies.

I don't think the regulations on that industry are going to change anytime soon, so to me, SD's issue going forward is what are we going to do to make up that lost revenue. It's not necessarily that we have been drastically overspending our means the past few years, it's just that a big portion of our means were removed from the picture. In order to continue to live the life that we have been living, with all the benefits provided by the State of SD, I think we'll have to look at a different type of tax structure. From the conversations I've had the past few months, I think most people that I've talked to in SD understand that and would be in favor of paying a little more for better schools, colleges, roads, healthcare, etc. It's too bad we (the citizens) didn't get a chance to express that sentiment before we took a step backwards by 10% this year.

Just my .02...

[Nidaros]

Re: More bad news

Agree with a lot of what you said.

While I'm sure internet sales have caused some downturn, I think the biggest change in our tax base has been the reform of the credit card/banking industry. I've heard that the new regulations to this industry has caused the State of SD 30-40 million dollars in lost tax revenue (through Credit Card companies in our state) each of the last two years. Now, one can debate until they are blue in the face the positives and negatives of these reforms, and I'm not here to do that. But when the State was facing approximately a 120 million dollar budget shortfall this year, and nearly 75 million of that would have been available previously from one industry, that seems to me where the problem lies.

Just my .02...

Would you elaborate some more the credit card reforms and how they have affected the SD tax structure? I fail to see the connection, but there are so many things about SD that I do not know. I would be guessing that the credit card companies pay a use tax on each transaction. My understanding that internet sales are tax free in SD, so I get that part.

[hareball]

Re: More bad news

South Dakota has a bank franchise tax - basically an income tax on banks. I believe all the credit card companies need to operate in SD under a bank charter. Recent credit card regulations at the federal level has resulted in a decrease in credit card company profits and thus less bank franchise tax.