Board of Regents Meeting

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

South Dakota, by any measure, spends LESS on education than almost any other state. If you believe the world stops at the S.D. border, then we're on the right track. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is going to continue to lap us and our kids won't be as successful out there as we would like. I'd prefer not to continue our race to the bottom in everything. We ARE among the national leaders... in ranking 51st.

There is tremendous hostility in this state to education (as evidenced by some people in this thread who seem to like SDSU athletics but assume SDSU faculty are lazy bloodsuckers.) I don't get it. Education is the only way we're going to move our state forward. You know what? Companies looking to relocate care a little bit about taxes. They care a lot about quality of life and availability of a well-educated workforce. Universities contribute to those things.

I want to be very, very clear about this: I do not think SDSU faculty are lazy bloodsuckers.

I do, however, reject the idea that the public universities (or any business for that matter) are being run as efficiently as possible.

I have personally seen too many instances where an employee, manager, or executive swears any changes to the status quo would devastate a company, only to be proven wrong.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

SF where do you work, I am interested?

That's probably part of my problem.

I work in the web development/internet marketing field.

If we did things the same way today as we did six months ago we would be getting our butts kicked by 23 year olds starting companies right out of college (and still sometimes do ). I definitely understand and appreciate the value of a college education and a college educated workforce, at least at this point in time.

When kids with marketing/business/programming degrees interview and don't know what basic tools like Google Analytics and Google Adwords are, it is very discouraging to me. Some of that frustration probably blew up in this thread. Sorry about that.

I don't really want to say the company's name. I doubt anyone on this board would recognize it anyway, as it isn't based in Sioux Falls and most of these types of companies aren't well known.

[EQguy]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Seems to me the mistake here is the assumption that OFFERING a minor is an inefficiency in itself. If SDSU offered 1000 minors and no one takes the courses there is little to no inefficiency as long as the classes it takes to get those minors are mainstream courses. The inefficiencies actually lie in classes that have small class sizes and not maxing out the time a professor teaches. Now, in the real world we know that a teacher can't teach 7 classes a day but maybe if they taught an extra class a semester that would increase efficiency (Not attacking teachers here but I do know several depts that have teachers teaching only 3 classes a semester, which requires a course to make $10,000 in tuition just to pay that salary.) Also, if the dept secretary is even halfway competent she does much more than just copy & answer phones. In my experiences the dept secretaries are invaluable sources of information for both faculty and students.

[zooropa]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

kids with marketing/business/programming degrees interview and don't know what basic tools like Google Analytics and Google Adwords are

The problem as I see it, is that universities are intended to teach you how to think critically, how to judge rationally, etc. They are not intended to provide up-to-the-second instruction in how to use software (and that's basically what Google Analytics & Ad Words are).

There's a disconnect between what businesses expect and what universities are constructed to deliver. But I don't see the value of focusing on instruction in software and tools where thinking and problem solving are of greater long-term value.

And think about it: How can you 'learn' those Google tools when you're working on the low volume/low traffic projects you get in college?

I think SDSU's art department needs to be more aggressive in terms of human machine interface instruction; it's an area that I believe SDSU is institutionally capable of excelling in.

But I do not think that this endeavor should consist of intense instruction in the tools of the trade---it should continue to follow the liberal arts tradition of teaching students how to think and solve problems.

Also, my apologies for 'barking' at you earlier.

[joeboo22]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Seems to me the mistake here is the assumption that OFFERING a minor is an inefficiency in itself. If SDSU offered 1000 minors and no one takes the courses there is little to no inefficiency as long as the classes it takes to get those minors are mainstream courses. The inefficiencies actually lie in classes that have small class sizes and not maxing out the time a professor teaches. Now, in the real world we know that a teacher can't teach 7 classes a day but maybe if they taught an extra class a semester that would increase efficiency (Not attacking teachers here but I do know several depts that have teachers teaching only 3 classes a semester, which requires a course to make $10,000 in tuition just to pay that salary.) Also, if the dept secretary is even halfway competent she does much more than just copy & answer phones. In my experiences the dept secretaries are invaluable sources of information for both faculty and students.

Generally if a professor is only teaching 3 classes a semester they are doing research or have another position with the university.

For example professor A is writing a book, is in charge of University research for his department, and teaches 3 classes. While professor B is teaching 6 classes a semester.

[EQguy]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

You'd think that but it isn't always the case Joe.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

The problem as I see it, is that universities are intended to teach you how to think critically, how to judge rationally, etc. They are not intended to provide up-to-the-second instruction in how to use software (and that's basically what Google Analytics & Ad Words are).

There's a disconnect between what businesses expect and what universities are constructed to deliver. But I don't see the value of focusing on instruction in software and tools where thinking and problem solving are of greater long-term value.

And think about it: How can you 'learn' those Google tools when you're working on the low volume/low traffic projects you get in college?

I think SDSU's art department needs to be more aggressive in terms of human machine interface instruction; it's an area that I believe SDSU is institutionally capable of excelling in.

But I do not think that this endeavor should consist of intense instruction in the tools of the trade---it should continue to follow the liberal arts tradition of teaching students how to think and solve problems.

Also, my apologies for 'barking' at you earlier.

I get what you're saying, but IMO kids graduating with a marketing/business/programming degree should at least know what Adwords and Analytics are. They don't have to be experts, but they should recognize the names (some do, so I have to assume its getting taught somewhere). And even on a small scale my opinion is that they would be very useful for teaching critical thinking. A kid listing experience with those two products will almost always get an interview where I work.

I have taken this thread further and further off track, my apologies all around. I'm taking some vacation next week, so hopefully I'll be a little less wound up in a few days.

The last thing I'll say is that I do respect the universities and the people who work there a great deal, even though my posts come off harsh. I wouldn't have the life I do today if not for some great professors and staff members preparing me. But that doesn't stop me from believing they can always be run better, more efficiently, and in new ways.

[zooropa]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

I get what you're saying, but IMO kids graduating with a marketing/business/programming degree should at least know what Adwords and Analytics are.

Well, you're casting kind of a wide net with that 'marketing/business/programming' thing, but that's where I'd be more interested in where the kid worked during college, and where/if he interned.

I mean, shoot, if the kid was planning on doing app development there's no reason why he should know what Ad Words are any more than I should know the number of the current version of Visual Studio.

[Nidaros]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Could some one please tell me what a Google ADWORD and briefly tell me what Google analytics are? I know how to google because of the tool bar, but other than that I know nothing.

[zooropa]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Could some one please tell me what a Google ADWORD and briefly tell me what Google analytics are? I know how to google because of the tool bar, but other than that I know nothing.

Ad words are (basically speaking) the ads that appear on the right side of the screen, and in the colored box at the top of the screen when you search using Google.

They're also embedded on any number of additional websites.

Google Analytics is a tool for tracking how people use your website.

[Nidaros]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Ad words are (basically speaking) the ads that appear on the right side of the screen, and in the colored box at the top of the screen when you search using Google.

They're also embedded on any number of additional websites.

Google Analytics is a tool for tracking how people use your website.

Thanks most should know this but I did not.

[MinnJack]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Here's that list of minors that were cut:

http://www.sdsucollegian.info/2011/0...tes-15-minors/

[Nidaros]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Here's that list of minors that were cut:

http://www.sdsucollegian.info/2011/0...tes-15-minors/

Looks like a an academic enema that was badly needed. A minor in Social Science, that interesting.

[zooropa]

Re: Board of Regents Meeting

Looks like a an academic enema that was badly needed. A minor in Social Science, that interesting.

Meh. I don't know that any of them look that outrageous.