Forum columnist on SDSU's success

[JimmyJack]

Mike McFeely tells the truth: Overall, SDSU has had more success since the D1 transition started than NDSU has...

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http://www.in-forum.com/articles/ind...e4967f4b223448

[JackJD]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

Well! I'll have to go over to Bisonville and see how the McFeely's haters are ripping on him today.

Registration for In-Forum is simple so readers may as well do it so you can see the articles and columns referenced on this message board.

Here's a cut from the column...Dr. Oien was asked to comment on SDSU's better success rate compared to NDSU. Oien laughed and deferred "Not going there!" McFeely then wrote:

Oien is friends with NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor, so he wasn’t going to jab the Bison even when the ball was placed on a tee for him. This is another reason we can’t take the allegedly rivalry between the Bison and Jackrabbits too seriously. How intense can it be if one side isn’t going to verbally cheap-shot the other?

The facts speak for themselves. While NDSU is hoping its volleyball team can be the first collection of Bison to qualify for an NCAA tournament, the Jackrabbits have been there, done that multiple times.

I like this rivalry just the way it is. The fans are taking cheap shots but mostly with a smile. The administrators are staying professional.

Fact is, SDSU was always more successful in DII when compared to the Bison. SDSU was the most successful program overall in the NCC. We maybe didn't get some headlines in football which seems to attract the most attention but when you compared total athletic departments, it's lopsided in favor of SDSU.

Good column by McFeely.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

It seems like many Bison fans have been a slow to give up the idea that a rivalry must involve 24/7 hatred of the rival institution. Why can't McFeely take an on-the-field rivalry seriously? Isn't this ultimately about who prevails on the field or court?

It's time for some people to grow up and stop asserting that the only way a rivalry is real is if it's a brain-dead hate-fest. Most of the student athletes I have talked to don't see it that way. They love the competition, but since they have the shared, on-the-field experience, they carry a healthy respect for their opponents.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

It was so good, it's submitted as the AGS SDSU "Fact of the Day" for today.

[JackJD]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

rep points for that!

[mgbison]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

I have a question for JackJD. where did you get your info regarding sdsu's athletics in D2 being that much better than ndsu's? When i counted going back to 1982, the programs were even (men's and womens) in the ncc all sports trophy's. even in the transition, you could prob make an argument for either athletic dept.

if I had to say who's had the more successful transition in each sport, this is how i'd grade it.

1. football (ndsu)
2. men's bball (ndsu)
3. womens bball (sdsu)
4 volleyball (tie)
5. baseball, wrestling, track, cc (no clue)

[SDSUJack3031]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

I have a question for JackJD. where did you get your info regarding sdsu's athletics in D2 being that much better than ndsu's? When i counted going back to 1982, the programs were even (men's and womens) in the ncc all sports trophy's. even in the transition, you could prob make an argument for either athletic dept.

if I had to say who's had the more successful transition in each sport, this is how i'd grade it.

1. football (ndsu)
2. men's bball (ndsu)
3. womens bball (sdsu)
4 volleyball (tie)
5. baseball, wrestling, track, cc (no clue)

Football (NDSU) -- But not by much considering SDSU owns the series between the two

Men's Bball (NDSU)

Women's Bball (SDSU)

Volleyball (Tie...but I'd have to look at statistics)

Baseball (SDSU --especially two years ago winning the independent championship, etc)

Wrestling (I think NDSU owns this one but give it a few years with SDSU getting their reigns back and they should prevail)

Soccer anyone (SDSU)

Track/CC -- So individualized I don't think it's worth comparing

[mgbison]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

I though i'd just give a quick little reason for each of my picks.

1. football (ndsu) - i went with the teams overall records, national rankings for the past years. Also, we've went 3-2 vs FBS teams and the SDSU loss to Wis (la crosse??). even though we don't own the head to head.

2. men's bball ndsu - no explanation needed
3. women's bball sdsu - no explanation needed
4. vball - tie - both teams have won the summit league once (i don't know the stats, but since we didn't loose a summit match this year, and only have 1 senior, it could be awhile before sdsu catches back up to us with this one)
5. baseball - can't argue with ya
6. softball - ndsu
7. wrestling - ndsu - btw, i didn't really understand you comments about wrestling. if there was any sport where ndsu dominated D2 it would be wrestling. I looked back and since '82, we've finished ahead of sdsu every year.
8. softball - ndsu - i don't think this one is close either
9. track/cc - agree

[JackJD]

Re: Forum columnist on SDSU's success

My comment was that SDSU was overall more successful in sports in D2...I did not limit my comment to the transition. McFeely's column was about success in the transition and I tend to agree with his take on that period for the reasons he stated. I recognize mgbison is directing his comments more on the transition period and he takes issue with McFeely.

mgbison asked me about my claim SDSU had better overall success in D2. I based my statement in part on statistics maintained by the North Central Conference. For years the NCC recognized an All-Sports Honor Roll for men and women. In more recent years, the NCC "awarded" the NCC Cup Honor Roll which recognized the success of men's and women's programs combined.

For the Women's Honor Roll, officially compiled from the 82-83 year through the last year of the NCC, 07-08, (keep in mind NDSU and SDSU dropped out several years ago), NDSU won five; and, SDSU won four.

For the Men's Honor Roll, same period etc., SDSU won 11 and NDSU won eight.

For the NCC Cup, started in 2003-04, NDSU won once but I believe that was the last year NDSU and SDSU competed in the NCC.

The foregoing statistics can be located in a pdf file on the NCC's website at this LINK.

mgbison writes about success in transition. McFeely's position is subject to honest debate. I tend to agree with McFeely. I think the point he was making is that there seems to be a lot of noise about how NDSU is doing but it's partner in transition, although a little more quiet about it, may be doing a little better.

mgbison admits to having no clue about the sports of wrestling, baseball, track, cross country. I respect a sports fan having his favorite sports. For example, I am clueless on hockey and somewhat clueless on soccer (the SDSU women's soccer team is winning me over as a fan). I happen to follow track and cross country and know a little about wrestling and baseball. If you're interested, mgbison, do some looking on NDSU's website about the success of your wrestling program -- it continues to be very good -- and your track program. Your track program was the dominant track program in the end of the NCC days and has continued to be very successful in transition. I think an argument can be made that NDSU's track and field program may be its most successful program in the transition. I say that after watching a number of meets over the years including, for example, the Drake Relays when NDSU isn't just competing with every track power, it is sometimes winning a big relay or competing to win a big relay.

Some NDSU fans seemed surprised to find out that the best athlete on campus is not a football player and is not a basketball player but is Laura Hermanson, one of the top collegiate 800 meter runners who competed in the Olympic Trials last summer. And she's not done running for the Bison.

mgbison: On the topic of cross country, take the time to look up the NCC cross country titles for the period when the first CC championships were held through the last season NDSU and SDSU competed in the NCC. For the men, SDSU won more titles than all other schools combined. The SDSU women also had outstanding success. SDSU has several national titles in cross country. This year SDSU won the Summit League women's title.

I have a question for JackJD. where did you get your info regarding sdsu's athletics in D2 being that much better than ndsu's? When i counted going back to 1982, the programs were even (men's and womens) in the ncc all sports trophy's. even in the transition, you could prob make an argument for either athletic dept.

if I had to say who's had the more successful transition in each sport, this is how i'd grade it.

1. football (ndsu)
2. men's bball (ndsu)
3. womens bball (sdsu)
4 volleyball (tie)
5. baseball, wrestling, track, cc (no clue)