Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I haven't been keeping up on the forum this summer since it is my busy time of year at work. I appreciate all of the comments from those that know more than I about schedules. IMHO, I have said it before and will say it again, all logic aside and on a personal note, whenever we play Udot in anything, it will be too f'in soon. I hope you don't have to think too hard to see how I feel...

Amen and amen brother J4L. I will be a vocal opponent to ever agreeing to play USD in the dome in basketball...so they better get a new basketball arena, and act like they belong in Division I, before I'll ever be convinced we should schedule them down there.

[BTownJack]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Amen and amen brother J4L. I will be a vocal opponent to ever agreeing to play USD in the dome in basketball...so they better get a new basketball arena, and act like they belong in Division I, before I'll ever be convinced we should schedule them down there.

I agree with Jacks#1Fan and J4L. I was beginning to think the attitude toward playing USD was changing. Come on folks...lets not forget about what USD put us through 5 years ago when we declared we were going D-I. They did everything they could at every possible level to make our lives miserable.

And the actions that took place the last time we went to the "oversized dog kennel"...I won't even start.

Never is too soon! Until were forced to play them, forget it.

[rational thought]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I agree with Jacks#1Fan and J4L. I was beginning to think the attitude toward playing USD was changing. Come on folks...lets not forget about what USD put us through 5 years ago when we declared we were going D-I. They did everything they could at every possible level to make our lives miserable.

And the actions that took place the last time we went to the "oversized dog kennel"...I won't even start.

Never is too soon! Until were forced to play them, forget it.

I agree, they need us right now, we don't need them in FB & BB......although I do see them popping on the schedule of the other sports......keeping in mind they have a history of not being proactive but reactive...by cutting sports.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I agree, they need us right now, we don't need them in FB & BB......although I do see them popping on the schedule of the other sports......keeping in mind they have a history of not being proactive but reactive...by cutting sports.

Speaking of which, what are their 14 sports? Don't the yotes have a 55% Women to 45 Men ratio, so to bump up football schollies from 36 to 63, plus add another 5 mens' BB schollies, so they have to add 32-34 mens schollies, then come in with 35-40 womens schollies to balance out? They say they're going to be to the full 63 schollies in football next year, so that they can get the BCS games too. But won't they get bit by the same requirement that they supported in the SD legislature imposed on them?

It will most likely be 2013 before we play them again.

[filbert]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Speaking of which, what are their 14 sports? Don't the yotes have a 55% Women to 45 Men ratio, so to bump up football schollies from 36 to 63, plus add another 5 mens' BB schollies, so they have to add 32-34 mens schollies, then come in with 35-40 womens schollies to balance out? They say they're going to be to the full 63 schollies in football next year, so that they can get the BCS games too. But won't they get bit by the same requirement that they supported in the SD legislature imposed on them?

It will most likely be 2013 before we play them again.

USD has seventeen sports (counting indoor and outdoor track & field separately, as the NCAA does). They plan to go from 103 scholarships to 165. If my math is correct, that's 35 added non-football scholarships and 27 added football scholarships.

Let's say 27 of the 35 non-football scholarships go towards all the women's sports. That leaves eight. Four more towards each gender? Or do they have to beef up the women's side?

Doesn't look to me like there will be many non-football men's scholarships available, other than the 3 to get the basketball program fully funded.

USD's sports, and the NCAA D-I maximums (effective Aug. 1 2008, equivalencies except where noted):
Men:
Basketball - 13 (head-count)
Cross Country - 12.6 (combined with Track & Field)
Football - 63 (85 head-count)
Golf - 4.5
Swimming & Diving - 9.9
Track & Field - (counted with Cross Country)

Women:
Basketball - 15 (head-count)
Cross Country - 18 (combined with Track & Field)
Golf - 6
Soccer - 14
Softball - 12
Swimming & Diving - 14
Tennis - 8 (head-count)
Track & Field - (counted with Cross Country)
Volleyball - 12 (head-count)

So, by my calculations, USD can offer a maximum of 103 men's scholarships and 99 women's scholarships, given the sports they now offer.

I don't know what their ramp-up plan is, and which sports aren't going to be fully funded with scholarships. You'd have to assume that football and men's basketball get fully funded . . . that's 76 scholarships right there.

If you do proportional by gender, assuming Rabid's 55%-45% ratio is correct, for USD's announced goal of 165 scholarships, you come out with 90.75 women's scholarships, and 74.25 men's scholarships.

Ouch. Does that mean that USD won't fund 63 football scholarships, but only 61.25, fully fund men's basketball, and let the other men's sports wither on the vine? Somehow I don't think so.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is totally relevant to the topic of the thread, but what the heck, I was a bit bored . . .

[Hammersmith]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

According to USD's 2007-08 Common Data Set, they had 1,904 male full-time, degree-seeking undergrads and 2,531 females for a ratio of 42.9/57.1.

[Nidaros]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

According to USD's 2007-08 Common Data Set, they had 1,904 male full-time, degree-seeking undergrads and 2,531 females for a ratio of 42.9/57.1.

Interesting numbers. USD as UND has as professional school such as Law, Business, and Medicine, and apparently, these students are exempt from the ratio. I am glad that I am not Joel Nielsen.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Oh well. In for a penny, in for a pound.

	 Men	Women	Ratio
NDSU(07) 5295	4102	56/44
UND(07)	 4775	4023	54/46
SDSU(06) 4121	3770	52/48
USD(07)	 1904	2531	43/57

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Oh well. In for a penny, in for a pound.

	 Men	Women	Ratio
NDSU(07) 5295	4102	56/44
UND(07)	 4775	4023	54/46
SDSU(06) 4121	3770	52/48
USD(07)	 1904	2531	43/57

USD is less than half the # of students than the other three. Male domination helps in sports, but if want a date, USD is the best chance campus.

[rational thought]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

USD is less than half the # of students than the other three. Male domination helps in sports, but if want a date, USD is the best chance campus.

Depends if your picky or not....

[jackrabit1]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

And how blind or desparate you are!

[Hammersmith]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Hey rabid or filbert,

I've been trying to confirm that IPFW is, in fact, an NCAA core institution. I was in contact with our local media, and they reported to me that Saul Phillips(NDSU MBB coach) told them IPFW is not. Reading through the DI manual, is boils down to whether IPFW submitted their reclassification paperwork to the NCAA before or after April 27, 2000. I sent emails to both IPFW's athletic department as well as the NCAA about a week ago to see if I could get a response, but I'm sure I'm pretty low on their priority lists. In searching the web, the earliest references to IPFW's status seem to come from the two of you. Do either of you know where this started or have any sources to confirm IPFW's status. I'd like to put this to bed once and for all or else start working on correcting the info I've helped spread. Thanks.

[filbert]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

It appears to me from the IPFW 2007 media guide that they played a transitional (year-one) D-I schedule in 2001-02. They definitely played a D-II schedule in 2000-2001.

Their media guide prefaces the 2001-02 season with "The Division I era."

This doesn't conclusively prove that they declared their reclassification before April 27, 2000 but would at least indicate that they are in the ballpark. I don't know if the NCAA had an exploratory year then like they do now--if so, then they would have declared their exploratory year prior to the 2000 season.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Yeah, I tried to find the 1999 NCAA manual to see what the process was back then, but the NCAA website only has online manuals back to 2000. I guess I'll just have to hope either IPFW or the NCAA responds to my emails. The reporter whose story started all this should be getting back from vacation on Monday, so maybe he'll take over if he thinks he might have gotten his facts wrong.

[Rabbit74]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

The IPFW situation is an interesting history.

The following information is from the IPFW NCAA Certification Report filed I believe in 2003-2004.

"Other signification events (with dates) in the history of intercollegiate athletics program:
8-22-2002 IPFW approved for Division I membership
2001-2002 Second year of Division I transition
2000-2001 First year of Division I transition
5-30-2000 IPFW declared its intent to move to Divsion I
1998 NCAA staff conducted a compliance review (at IPFW's request)
1983 IPFW joined Great Lakes Valley Conference
1982 IPFW moved to NCAA Division II
1980 IPFW became a member of the NAIA"[/I]

It would appear that IPFW missed the April 27, 2000 deadline by about 1 month unless they received some type of additional grandfathering consideration. In fact, IPFW was initially denied in their request for beginning reclassification due to deadlines. However they were later approved to begin in 2000. I can't find a clear statement but that approval may well of also grandfathered them in on the core issue. (Information in this paragraph is from the NCAA web site.)


If the real question is whether the Summit could lose its automatic bid by loss of a core member, the answer appears to be no. IPFW has been a core member for six years as of this month. The NCAA provides a two year grace period, so by the end of that, IPFW would be a counter and the Summit would be at the magic number of 7 again.