Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

[JackJD]

This topic has been worked over so many times that I hesitate to post anything on the subject, but, today's Fargo Forum had a story discussing the potential for NDSU to play UND and SDSU to play USD now that both UND and USD have started the move to D-I status. The story focus is on NDSU and UND but comments on SDSU and USD. The only "new" information is a quote from the MIssouri Valley Football Conference Commish which makes it appears out of the question for UND and USD to join our conference.

You have to sign in to In-Forum (no fee) to see the story...here's the link and some parts of the story:

Link.

Parts of the story:

In basketball, playing UND instead of a non-Division I school like Valley City State would guarantee a bigger crowd. It could also help NDSU’s RPI ranking – boosting its chance to qualify for a postseason tournament other than the NCAA.
That’s why South Dakota State could eventually be scheduling games again with its longtime rival South Dakota.
“Our position has always been, we will play anybody that enhances our position for postseason play,” said SDSU athletic director Fred Oien. “If that happens to be the University of South Dakota, then we will play them.”
...
To play them (UND) every year in football would be a challenge,” said Taylor, adding that the schedules are more flexible in other sports.
If UND fans are thinking the Sioux could join the Bison in the Missouri Valley Football Conference, don’t count on it. Missouri Valley commissioner Patty Viverito said the league hasn’t given any thought of adding UND and USD.
“Nine teams seem to be the magic number for us,” Viverito said. “You get four home games, four away games allowing schools to schedule three other games. There is not a lot of incentive for us to be searching as long as the league stays stable.”

[Nidaros]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I think this topic beats the encounters of Riley Reiff and his career at U of Iowa.

Its very interesting topic for off season discussion. I am sure all the scheduling will take place when ever both schools have something to gain. This coming season would not be in the best interests of SDSU or NDSU to schedule UXD'S because of the non counter rules that the NCAA has in place. That is obvious plus schedules are probably all supported by written contracts.

I know the topic of USD and UND joining the Summit is a thought of as a cake walk in that institution that claims to be the oldest University in the Dakotas. Too bad the Dakota Territory legislature screwed that up by not appropriating funds to commence classes in 1862, but USD had to wait until the 1880's like everyone else to get their funds. Does that make them the oldest university? I don't claim to be an SD history expert, but I believe power in the legislature shifted to place north such as Sioux Falls and Bismark. Another topic perhaps.

Getting into the Summit might be as difficult as it was in getting appropriations to start classes during the period of 1862-1883 or there abouts.

My point is that USD and UND have to work hard to earn consideration by the other Summit members. Both of the Forum articles seem to suggest that. There are other members in the Summit who up until a couple of years ago, had no idea on how to get to the Dakotas. So riding the coat tails of NDSU and SDSU may not work. They have to sell themselves to the Summit.

From a travel perspective, a divisional formation might be the best option on the table right now, but the comment from NDSU president Joe Chapman seems to suggest that he is more concerned about what the other members in the Summit think than getting UND and USD into the Summit. Although President Chicoine has a good relationship with President Abbott of USD, I don't think that can be an assurance that even President Chicoine would vote for admission of USD and UND into the Summit. I believe, those votes will be determined by what issues are before the Summit Conference and how the other members feel about given issues.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

We will start seeing USD and UND on our OOC sooner rather than later.

However, it will be in the sports that we have continued competing with them during our transition, cross-country, track, swimming.

We will start scheduling them for the other minor sports as fast as possible, because in those, we want to minimize travel costs, and here are two relatively close by schools to play.

For the big three sports at SDSU, football, men and women's basketball....

Football - The Jacks are scheduled out for 10 of their 11 games through 2013. Guess where they are going to be interested in playing that last game? Yep, Brookings. So Sioux or Coyotes may be in a situation of a 2fer deal if they want to play State, or come down on a one-n-done. Regarding MoValley Football for USD/UND, it will take a LOT before they are admitted, literally someone would have to leave (THANK YOU WESTERN KY) before the 'yotes and Sioux get invites. Actually, I expect to see Wichita St. football in MoValley before we'll see USD/UND in the MoValley. There is a SLIGHT possibility 5-10 years down the road for the SUMMIT/GWFC to make an attractive offer for SDSU/NDSU to go back there. Potentially, IF (HUGE TWO LETTER WORD THERE) USD/UND were to join the Summit, and IF MO VALLEY gets over 6 all-sports football playing schools, we could be essentially forced back into the Summit football conference. Suffice to say, UND or USD will not be annual games while we are in two separate conferences.

Basketball - As long as the Summit membership holds steady, then the Us' will be single game OOC's in Nov/Dec. However, it will be those games IF we think playing them will help our cause. In men's, I predict that we will see at least ONE of the two in 2009-2010. If their women get the kind of "we'll play anybody anyplace" and do well, like SDSU did in transition, then we'll see them. UND has that kind of schedule. USD doesn't appear to be there (more like NDSU's first transition year). The Us' may find themselves in the GWC for much longer than they would like. In 8 years, after NDSU/SDSU are full core members, then USD/UND would be a great addition to the Summit. However, until the SUMMIT holds their CORE members, there is little incentive to bring in transitionals. The only three CORE schools that are independent are Chicago St., UTPA and Savannah St. Each of these three are weak choices, but have that CORE status critical to auto-bid.

[filbert]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I think the bottom lines are:

SDSU will play USD and UND when we determine that it is in our best interest to do so.

Other conferences will invite USD and/or UND to join when they determine that it is their best interests to do so.

"Best interests" in both cases means that it is in the financial interest of the parties involved. It's not about "rivalries," it's about revenue. Which means for the State U's it's about RPIs and playing the schedules which are most likely to result in a playoff berth, and then, secondarily, about gate revenue.

Honestly, I would not be at all surprised to see UND show up in men's and women's basketball fairly regularly from 2009-10 on--possibly first with a 2-for-1 or a 4-for-2 or some such deal beneficial to SDSU.

Football for SDSU is pretty much scheduled out through the U's transition period. Further out, unless either of the U's find themselves in the same conference as SDSU, I don't see any kind of annual series resuming any time soon. With eight Valley conference games, an annual FBS guarantee away game, and two other non-conference games to schedule (occasionally three, in 12-game years) there aren't many schedule openings to fill.

IMHO it will be a loooooong time before SDSU's athletic administration will subject their basketball teams to the environment in Vermillion. SDSU's open non-conference slots can be better used for another home game or a guarantee game against a big-name regional team, and there's still a large reservoir of bad feelings in Brookings from the last time the Jackrabbit basketball teams were in Vermillion. (The previous statement is not an invitation to an argument, Yote fans. Just accept it as a fact, because it is.)

I would not be at all surprised however if there were an annual SDSU-USD game in Sioux Falls (with the schools alternating the "home" team). I personally think it would be a great anchor to a D-I holiday tournament in Sioux Falls, and generally a win-win-win all the way around, even before USD finishes its transition.

I have no inside knowledge but that's just how I see things shaking out.

[jackmd]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

In basketball and volleyball I think the rivalry can and will be revisited in due time and I think it can and will be healthy again. Ideally, I see it resuming in a fashion similar to Iowa St. vs Iowa or Louisville vs Kentucky or Marquette vs Wisconsin, etc... In-state teams affiliated with different conferences. A neutral court as part of an early season or holiday tourney seems like a great idea. I'm absolutely not interested in attending a game in the dome and I don't care to see a large or small contingent of USD fans polluting Brookings.

I don't see room for an annual football game anytime soon. Our schedule is booked and the Udots gain nothing by filling their schedule with one of the SU's on the road. Time certainly changes things and I'd never say never but I definitely don't see an annual game schedule with the Udots for a looooooong time.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Stu Whitney guaranteed that we will all be in the same conference in five years. We'll have to play them then.

[JackJD]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Stu Whitney guaranteed that we will all be in the same conference in five years. We'll have to play them then.

MJA: way to kill a thread with a nicely developing discussion. I had forgotten about Stu's guarantee!

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

MJA,
Just wondering how much money you are willing to put behind Stu's guarantee? As for me, I want the other side of the action.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Sorry, just couldn't resist being a smart@ss on a Monday. Plus, who are we to argue with Stu?

On topic, I agree with what has previously been stated. Taking all emotion out of the equation, I think the basketball and volleyball teams will and should play sooner than the football teams. There is a financial incentive for both teams to do that. Football just doesn't need USD at this point. We set all-time highs in attendance and excitement for the team in the last 2 years. Why would we replace a Deleware with USD? More importantly, why would we replace a Nebraska or Iowa St. with USD? So Stu can say "I told you so"? There just isn't any real incentive to play them in football. We have 8 conference games every year and that isn't changing. We are also shooting for a payday game from a FCS team every year. That narrows the field to 2 games right now. The decision becomes do we fill those games with teams that can help us get into the playoff or teams that we can beat and count as a guaranteed win. I'm sure USD will fit in there somewhere someday. Just won't happen for a while.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Sorry, just couldn't resist being a smart@ss on a Monday. Plus, who are we to argue with Stu?

I couldn't either. As for the substance of the thread, I agree with what most have said that when it makes sense for SDSU athletes, then the games will be scheduled.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Sorry, just couldn't resist being a smart@ss on a Monday. Plus, who are we to argue with Stu?

On topic, I agree with what has previously been stated. Taking all emotion out of the equation, I think the basketball and volleyball teams will and should play sooner than the football teams. There is a financial incentive for both teams to do that. Football just doesn't need USD at this point. We set all-time highs in attendance and excitement for the team in the last 2 years. Why would we replace a Deleware with USD? More importantly, why would we replace a Nebraska or Iowa St. with USD? So Stu can say "I told you so"? There just isn't any real incentive to play them in football. We have 8 conference games every year and that isn't changing. We are also shooting for a payday game from a FCS team every year. That narrows the field to 2 games right now. The decision becomes do we fill those games with teams that can help us get into the playoff or teams that we can beat and count as a guaranteed win. I'm sure USD will fit in there somewhere someday. Just won't happen for a while.

Starting in '09, Vermites and Sioux would count toward D-I games, just not 2008. Just like Jacks were supposed to be guaranteed wins vs Southern, Nichols, McNeese St. during transition, these two teams will win their share vs D-I opponents.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

Starting in '09, Vermites and Sioux would count toward D-I games, just not 2008. Just like Jacks were supposed to be guaranteed wins vs Southern, Nichols, McNeese St. during transition, these two teams will win their share vs D-I opponents.

Agreed. I wasn't meaning to insinuate USD would fit in as a guaranteed win. Not sure that sort of strategy is one employed by SDSU anyway. If our past and future schedules show anything it's that we tend to lean heavily on scheduling teams who present huge challenges, not cupcakes. I was thinking USD and UND may someday fit into that category where a victory would be a benefit in getting us into the playoffs. I have little question UND can become a good FCS team. USD has a lot of momentum. It will be interesting to see how that translates into the next level.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I have not forgotten that last basketball game in Vermillion or the negative grandstanding by USD Administrators and fans after SDSU declared DI, however I'm all for playing them once they are a counter in any sport on SDSU terms ie. Home game in Brookings and or Sioux Falls.

[Jack4Life]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I have not forgotten that last basketball game in Vermillion or the negative grandstanding by USD Administrators and fans after SDSU declared DI, however I'm all for playing them once they are a counter in any sport on SDSU terms ie. Home game in Brookings and or Sioux Falls.

I haven't been keeping up on the forum this summer since it is my busy time of year at work. I appreciate all of the comments from those that know more than I about schedules. IMHO, I have said it before and will say it again, all logic aside and on a personal note, whenever we play Udot in anything, it will be too f'in soon. I hope you don't have to think too hard to see how I feel...

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Will NDSU and SDSU be playing UND and USD?

I haven't been keeping up on the forum this summer since it is my busy time of year at work. I appreciate all of the comments from those that know more than I about schedules. IMHO, I have said it before and will say it again, all logic aside and on a personal note, whenever we play Udot in anything, it will be too f'in soon. I hope you don't have to think too hard to see how I feel...

I think I see where you are going with that and ummm.....

Never would be too soon for me to take a trip to the DakotaDump!

SUPERBUNNY