Article Comparing SDSU - USD Athletic Funding

[LetsGoRabbits]

Found that interesting too. I also thought former President Abbott's admission that USD couldn't support DI move when Jacks and NDSU did was noteworthy.

It seems they still aren't ready, without being on the public dole.

Also, the headline was misleading, as I'm not sure I'd characterize Jacks as "heavily reliant" on public funding

i have a lot of thoughts about your post

first the headline. usually the headline gives some idea what the general point of the article is, but i guess not always. i can imagine that Stu was making some attempt to be critical of both schools, but i dont think the evidence really supported any reason to be critical of SDSU and i am not sure what the real point of the article was??

i am not saying that it did not have some interesting information, but it did not seem to be written as a, Hey 20ish years into this deal, here is some information about your SD D1 athletic programs, and their funding. I think he wanted to make a point but i am not sure what. i guess that means he did not make it overly well??


As far as Abbott's admission, does anyone remember ANYTHING like that being given as a reason for them not making the move at that time? I absolutely do not remember anyone connected with USD or any of the media covering the decisions the two schools made, reporting anything like this, but i am definitely willing to admit my memory is not always as good as i would like it to be. in my mind, i recall other ncc schools and the media painting the jacks and bison as taking an unnecessary, attention seeking, and financially dangerous choice

maybe if something like this would have been said, more people would have been supportive of the move to begin with. meaning, the admission not only that usd and other schools did not have the needed financial support / resources, but also the admission that they DID recognize at the time that D2 was headed toward movement in a backward direction and that going to D1 was the correct decision


this also gives some additional perspective of why usd, augie, and others want to follow the path of least resistance that sdsu / ndsu have already laid down. they CONTINUE to not be actually financially ready and possilbly could not survive the difficult transition process that sdsu / ndsu face, but maybe they can survive it with the benefit of following our footsteps. maybe if they had been more honest initially, i would have more interest in helping them currently. obviously usd is beyond the transition process. apparently even with the help they had they still might not be able to thrive

it really is not genuine to list their successes like they are equal to the jacks. they are mostly irrelevant in football. their biggest success is one fluke play. zero mbb ncaa appearances. and yes the wbb had an excellent run, but they did that with the one group of players which included multiple of their all time top 5 and have not sustained success across multiple recruiting classes

[jakejc795]

i have a lot of thoughts about your post

first the headline. usually the headline gives some idea what the general point of the article is, but i guess not always. i can imagine that Stu was making some attempt to be critical of both schools, but i dont think the evidence really supported any reason to be critical of SDSU and i am not sure what the real point of the article was??

i am not saying that it did not have some interesting information, but it did not seem to be written as a, Hey 20ish years into this deal, here is some information about your SD D1 athletic programs, and their funding. I think he wanted to make a point but i am not sure what. i guess that means he did not make it overly well??


As far as Abbott's admission, does anyone remember ANYTHING like that being given as a reason for them not making the move at that time? I absolutely do not remember anyone connected with USD or any of the media covering the decisions the two schools made, reporting anything like this, but i am definitely willing to admit my memory is not always as good as i would like it to be. in my mind, i recall other ncc schools and the media painting the jacks and bison as taking an unnecessary, attention seeking, and financially dangerous choice

maybe if something like this would have been said, more people would have been supportive of the move to begin with. meaning, the admission not only that usd and other schools did not have the needed financial support / resources, but also the admission that they DID recognize at the time that D2 was headed toward movement in a backward direction and that going to D1 was the correct decision


this also gives some additional perspective of why usd, augie, and others want to follow the path of least resistance that sdsu / ndsu have already laid down. they CONTINUE to not be actually financially ready and possilbly could not survive the difficult transition process that sdsu / ndsu face, but maybe they can survive it with the benefit of following our footsteps. maybe if they had been more honest initially, i would have more interest in helping them currently. obviously usd is beyond the transition process. apparently even with the help they had they still might not be able to thrive

it really is not genuine to list their successes like they are equal to the jacks. they are mostly irrelevant in football. their biggest success is one fluke play. zero mbb ncaa appearances. and yes the wbb had an excellent run, but they did that with the one group of players which included multiple of their all time top 5 and have not sustained success across multiple recruiting classes

I could understand former President Abbott not being vocal about factors impeding a move nearly two decades ago. He'd risk offending influential alums.

Regading others not being ready, it'd be great if we could model how NIL and the transfer portal, which further complicate prospective DI transitions now, would have impacted the Jacks and Bison had they been present in 2004.

Whitney's article in general has me wondering if he has an "FBS endeavors" one in the hopper in the event the Jacks pursue that dream (for some), which would allow him to assert "your athletics department required a 44 percent subsidy at the FCS level, you better have a very sweet media deal if you think you can afford FBS' increased scholarships, travel, etc."

[LetsGoRabbits]

I could understand former President Abbott not being vocal about factors impeding a move nearly two decades ago. He'd risk offending influential alums.

Regading others not being ready, it'd be great if we could model how NIL and the transfer portal, which further complicate prospective DI transitions now, would have impacted the Jacks and Bison had they been present in 2004.

Whitney's article in general has me wondering if he has an "FBS endeavors" one in the hopper in the event the Jacks pursue that dream (for some), which would allow him to assert "your athletics department required a 44 percent subsidy at the FCS level, you better have a very sweet media deal if you think you can afford FBS' increased scholarships, travel, etc."

yes, I can see something related to your thought about Abbott. that said, I think he or the leaders of the other ncc schools could have said something like, we can see some wisdom in the proposed moves by our rivals in brookings and fargo. there does appear to be some writing on the wall about some unwanted changes in the D2 level of ncaa athletics, but if we want to make a similar move we feel like it is prudent to gather some additional support
and again maybe something like that was said but i dont recall it

[jbjack]

UxDs in 2003: The UxDs have general demurrals about DII being the right place for them. USD in particular announced it would place increased emphasis on academics. I believe "Harvard of the West" may have been uttered.

The financial picture: SDSU more than doubles USD's corporate sponsorships.

Stu: When Stu still has a day job as a reporter, he was always critical of SDSU. The headline isn't quite a smear of SDSU, but it did inappropriately paint SDSU with the same financial brush as USD. The pictures are a contrast in reality.

Final note: Ticket sales. Either USD gives away most of its tickets or, hot take, it reports untruthful attendance figures.

[OldHare]

Last night's(April 29) scholarship auction garnered over $2 million.

[LetsGoRabbits]

UxDs in 2003: The UxDs have general demurrals about DII being the right place for them. USD in particular announced it would place increased emphasis on academics. I believe "Harvard of the West" may have been uttered.

The financial picture: SDSU more than doubles USD's corporate sponsorships.

Stu: When Stu still has a day job as a reporter, he was always critical of SDSU. The headline isn't quite a smear of SDSU, but it did inappropriately paint SDSU with the same financial brush as USD. The pictures are a contrast in reality.

Final note: Ticket sales. Either USD gives away most of its tickets or, hot take, it reports untruthful attendance figures.

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
USD absolutely was quoted in multiple media outlets as saying they were making a choice to focus on academics, with the unquestionable implication that SDSU did not care about academics and were happy to sacrifice improvements in academics, in order to pursue glory and attention in D1 athletics

and i will not say i have it exactly word for word, but the phrase i clearly recall being utilized by media is something very close to, their intention was to be recognized as the Ivy League school of the Prairie

i can tell you for a fact that i have had more than a handful of former athletes in both athletic programs. i have not had a single kid attending usd tell me that they were having difficulty meeting the academic challenges

i had a very good former football player (played 2 years for the Jacks) who chose to give up athletics, because as he stated, he did not believe it was possible for him to be the best player he could be and also meet the academic standards that he had for himself or that the football program demanded

his very good friend and HS teammate went to usd and played football until his eligibility was completed. the two of them played for me at the same time, graduated from the same high school and had identical GPA within one hundredths of a point

another former player started in Juco. after first year the coach intended to have him redshirt and therefore started him on an academic program that would take two more years to complete. when they reached MBB season of the second year, however, the coach discovered that because of a massive and incredible amount of individual work in the offseason the player had improved such a HUGE amount there was no way they could afford to have him redshirt
consequently, my former player completed his juco athletic eligibility at the end of the second year, but he was not academically prepared to enter a four year school. he was recruited by literally, well over 50 schools, including both SDSU and USD
every school he talked to needed him to take Summer credits in order to play the first year. the average amount of credits was in the neighborhood of a full semester worth, 12-15 ish

to play for the Jacks he needed 14 credits
to play for USD he needed 5

finally, non athletics, but my own step daughter spent freshman year at SDSU. could not get admitted to the nursing program before her sophomore year, because of academics, transferred to USD and was admitted to the nursing program immediately

USD, the institution, alums, and students, want to believe they are academically superior. I believe it is largely based on them having the med school and the law school, but over multiple decades of having my students and athletes be recruited by, taking visits, and attending both schools, i surely have never seen a shred of evidence to back up their hopes and dreams.

surely, some would almost completely disregard my opinion as being wildly biased, but i can tell you i definitely recommended many times to both my players and students not involved in athletics that schools other than SDSU would be the best choice for them, or one of multiple excellent choices

Lastly, in case it was not clear from the highlighting, etc.., i also have exactly the same memory that you do, regarding Mr Whitney and his perspective and reporting related to the Jacks

[JimmieTuba]

Stu stated multiple times that enrollment at both schools has decreased over the past ten years, using that as a bit of a failure of the DI moves. Stu fails to mention that college enrollment has been trending down since 2010.

There may be hidden enrollment gains but it is hard to document with enrollment trending down across the country.

[MontanaRabbit]

Stu stated multiple times that enrollment at both schools has decreased over the past ten years, using that as a bit of a failure of the DI moves. Stu fails to mention that college enrollment has been trending down since 2010.

There may be hidden enrollment gains but it is hard to document with enrollment trending down across the country.

The outrageous cost of a college education is as much to blame with enrollment reduction as anything. The cost of an education has gotten out of control and for many many majors the cost of the education doesn't make sense from a potential earnings standpoint.

[goon]

UxDs in 2003: The UxDs have general demurrals about DII being the right place for them. USD in particular announced it would place increased emphasis on academics. I believe "Harvard of the West" may have been uttered.

The financial picture: SDSU more than doubles USD's corporate sponsorships.

Stu: When Stu still has a day job as a reporter, he was always critical of SDSU. The headline isn't quite a smear of SDSU, but it did inappropriately paint SDSU with the same financial brush as USD. The pictures are a contrast in reality.

Final note: Ticket sales. Either USD gives away most of its tickets or, hot take, it reports untruthful attendance figures.

Princeton of the prairie i beleive is what they called it. They were going to focus on academics