UND/UMD hockey not really DI

[jackmd]

Sure UND and UMD compete at the DI level in hockey but there not really DI. This weekend UMD plays in the frozen four (DI hockey national championship) in Boston, I believe (I'm not a puckhead). However, because UMD is a DII university they don't get a penny of the revenue generated by their participation! Whats the point.

While listening to P.A. and Dubay on KFAN this morning they brought up this very point to the UMD hockey coach (Sandelin, formerly at UND). He then lamented this fact and stated that he hoped this would change in the future. If he means a move up to DI by the university I think he's dreaming. This doesn't seem likely for his current school or the one with which he was formerly affiliated.

So, you spend the money on scholarships, facilities, etc.. to field a competative team at the "DI" level and then just as you reach the penultimate goal (a championship) you get only the recognition in word/symbol (trophy) and not in substance (cash). This must make sense to somebody, please enlighten me.

[bisonguy]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

There's reallly not DII hockey in the NCAA. There are only about 10 teams that compete at the DII level, and no championship reconginized by the NCAA. Basically hockey is DI or DIII.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

There are only 49 schools that participate in D-I Hockey (58 if you count provisional members). Of that only 27 are true D-I schools, 17 are D-II schools (like UND, St. Cloud, MSU-M, UNO, and UMD), and 5 are D-III. So winning a National Championship in this minor sport is not a huge deal. Something to be proud of for sure, but much like Lacrosse or Water Polo, not something that you can really hold up as a "My school is better then yours" if you know what I mean.


Go SDSU a real D-I school!  ;D

[bisonguy]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

Over 40,000 were in attendance at the DI Lacrosse championship last year. I wouldn't be so quick to throw hockey in a category like that.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

Ya, but I couldn't tell you who played in the game without looking it up, and I will bet most fans are in the same boat.

[bisonguy]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

Ya, but I couldn't tell you who played in the game without looking it up, and I will bet most fans are in the same boat.

I guess it is the same as hockey ;D.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

Here is what the NCAA says:

https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBI.home

20.4.1.3 Divisions II and III Members - Classification of a Sport in Division I

A member of Division II or Division III may petition to be classified in Division I in any one men’s sport, other than football or basketball, and in any one women’s sport, other than basketball, and in any single sport in which the only NCAA championships opportunity is the National Collegiate Championship. In addition, a member of Division II may be classified in Division I in a sport in which there is a Division and a Division III championship, but no Division II championship.

So in the end UND, UNO, SCSU, MSU-M, and UMD are D-II schools playing D-I hockey. While SDSU, NDSU, and UNC are D-I schools.

Go State! ;D

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

I have no doubts about the growing popularity of hockey as a spectator sport, but the NCAA does not have the CBS contract worth $$$$$ that it has for basketball and thats what really minimizes the significance of winning a D1 championship in hockey. All other things considered winning a national championship in any sport, is not forgotten. It can be mentioned time and time again for the next 100 years.

As a side note, I found a way to sneak into siouxsports.com, and gosh I sure dont miss the self righteous and indignat UND fans who post regularily over there.  Somehow UND can do no wrong.  Reading about Fred Oien and the Jones incident was hilarious. UND fans have no concept of the fact that Rich Glas was breaking NCAA and NCC rules by having a discussion with Matt Jones and family.

I think Fred did the right thing by running Glas's ass out of Frost and telling him go get on the bus. If SDSU were not going D1AA, this Glas-Jones conversation would have been a violation for the NCC commissioner to deal with.  Of course Marcil could give a rats ass about SDSU now that we are leaving and to save his own job, he would natuarlly have protected UND by ignoring the complaint.

I had better stop I have exceeded the boundry of this subject matter.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

I have no doubts about the growing popularity of hockey as a spectator sport, but the NCAA does not have the CBS contract worth $$$$$ that it has for basketball and thats what really minimizes the significance of winning a D1 championship in hockey. All other things considered winning a national championship in any sport, is not forgotten. It can be mentioned time and time again for the next 100 years.

SDSUFAN,

I need to disagree with you a little on this point.  If anything minimizes a D-I Hockey Championship it is first and foremost that the NCAA allows D-II and D-III Schools to participate in this sport but maintain their status as a member of D-II or D-III.  

The NCAA by it's own by-laws has set Football and Basketball (both Men's and Women's) apart from Hockey, Water Polo, Lacrosse, and the rest.

The next issue that might minimize a D-I Hockey Championship is the lack of participants.  D-I Hockey only has 58 schools playing the sport.  The Men's and Women's Basketball tournaments START with 64 schools.  To better illustrate my point there are 326 schools who compeat at the D-I level in Men's Basketball compared to 58 for Hockey.

http://kenpom.com/rpi.php

Don't get me wrong I like hockey, it just isn't on the same level as basketball and football. And schools that have one D-I sport (like Hockey) but remain D-II or D-III are not on the same level as Schools that the NCAA classifies as D-I (like SDSU, NDSU, and UNC). 

Go State!

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

89rabbitt:
I dont think we disagree. We are just making different points and the lack of membership and allowance of D2 and D3 to participate, probably makes any big revenue contract harder to negioate. I assume someone does the Frozen Four, like ESPN but it can be the cash cow that the CBS contract is for basketball.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

SDSUFAN,

You are right, disagree was a poor choice of words. We are making the same point, just approaching it from different angles.

Go State!

[bisonguy]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

I believe a school cannot have a DI baseball team without having a DI athletic program, either. ???

There are some other DII and DIII schools that participate in one DI sport (Edinboro wrestling?).

[89rabbit]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

I believe a school cannot have a DI baseball team without having a DI athletic program, either.  ???

There are some other DII and DIII schools that participate in one DI sport (Edinboro wrestling?).

Here is what the NCAA says:

https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBI.home

20.4.1.3 Divisions II and III Members - Classification of a Sport in Division I

A member of Division II or Division III may petition to be classified in Division I in any one men’s sport, other than football or basketball, and in any one women’s sport, other than basketball, and in any single sport in which the only NCAA championships opportunity is the National Collegiate Championship. In addition, a member of Division II may be classified in Division I in a sport in which there is a Division and a Division III championship, but no Division II championship.

[bisonguy]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

I stand corrected.

[MadJack]

Re: UND/UMD hockey not really DI

Can't say that I'm much of a hockey fan or care that much about who wins the National championship. But I do find the fact that neither school can share in revenues from the tournament rather amusing. I like this too, I had a chance to attend the WCHA Tournament championship game this year (UND vs. Minnesota) and sat next to some UND fans (not by choice). They were the most arrogant fans I've ever seen, stating how UND was the #1 seed in the country and how they would be in Boston for the Frozen Four while Minnesota would more than likely be stuck at home. (Sidebar: I read the StarTribune so I've picked upon some post season tidbits). And I also listen to KFAN, where UMD fans have been spouting off all year long that this is their year for the "coronation of a champion" (borrowed this from the KFAN guys). And so, mighty Denver knocked off the Fighting Sue in the regional, thus ending UND's glorious season. And today, UMD jumps out to a 3-1 lead over Denver, only to lose 5-3. Ah yes, mighty Denver representing in the Frozen Four championship game this weekend. Oh how sweet it is to have UND fans (and UMD fans) shut up by a school most people don't even realize exists or has DI athletics (all sports are DI from what I know).