Announcement

**jackmd** · 11-19-2004, 09:05 PM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

As the smoke clears, fans were clearly out of line, proper punishment should inlclude those who stepped outside the lines. Fans were at fault, period. Anyone else wathcing this?

**gojacksgo** · 11-19-2004, 09:09 PM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

I've been watching espn news for a while and it's all that is on there. They all think it was also the fan's fault too. As do I. The brawl between the players was pretty much over and then that beer was thrown, which got it all going again.

**Texas_Jacks_Fan** · 11-20-2004, 10:10 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

This is the reason I stopped watching the NBA about 6-7 years ago. (I used to go to close to 10 games per year-Nuggets, Bucks & Rockets)
The game/culture is completely out of touch with me.

**Rabbit_FB_Alum** · 11-21-2004, 01:03 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

I agree. �NBA=a bunch of athletic thugs that don't really know how to play basketball. I stopped watching it a couple of years ago and just can't make myself start again.

**OK_Jackrabbit** · 11-21-2004, 05:00 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

The fans are idiots, but I blame the players. It wouldn't have escalated into what it became had the players stayed on the court. Music producer and sometime basketball player Ron Artest was struck lightly in the chest by a plastic cup. He was struck while playing drama queen, lying on the scorer's table, aggrieved over Wallace's push a few minutes earlier. Artest's response after the mostly empty cup fluttered to a landing on his chest? Jump into the stands and attack people. Jackson and O'Neal "had his back" and joined in. Did they pull him out of the stands to calm the situation? No, they went head hunting. Did you see the looks in those two guys' eyes? These players are supposed to be professionals. Would Larry Bird have jumped into the stands? How about Magic Johnson? Michael Jordan? No matter what a stupid fan does, you can't cross that line and call yourself a professional.

I have found it interesting to watch the responses of ESPN's analysts. Keep in mind that ESPN has millions of dollars invested in the NBA and has a vested interest in making sure the league is not harmed here. Jon Saunders, for example, said yesterday that throwing a cup at Artest was assault and his response justified. Tim Legler posted a commentary online defending the players. ESPN's poll yesterday was clearly constructed to bias responses towards blaming fans primarily. Well, Jon Saunders, maybe throwing a cup is misdemeanor battery, but indescriminately attacking fans physically in response is aggravated assault, a felony.

Then, overnight, ESPN's tone changed. Now even their former players are drawing a line at Artest's failure to restrain himself. Could it be because of the thousands of emails ESPN has received? Or perhaps a discussion with their polling people, has convinced them that supporting the Ron Artests of the world isn't as wise (profitable) as they at first thought. Or maybe NBA Commissioner David Stern saw the potential for harm to the league if they dismissed this as the fault of fans and made a call to ESPN (after he called the teams and indefinitely suspended the involved players). I think maybe Stern kept focused on what started this: The fluttering cup thrown by a fan followed by wild and unrestrained violence by players.

There's something more behind this, some sort of hyper-alpha-male culture in which any insult is cause for violent response. I heard NBA players and Clemson and South Carolina players talk about how you have to respond when you are "disrespected". One Clemson player involved in their brawl even smiled and said at least they kept their brawl on the field. It was like he was proud of his part in the melee. Is this the Jerry Springer Show? Since when does merely being disrespected mean you have to respond with mob violence?

Here's an idea: If you're disrespected, don't attack with violence and don't turn the other cheek. Play harder and win the game. There's nothing that hurts a die-hard fan or a disrespectful opponent more than losing the game. Act like a professional, and kick your opponents' asses, within the rules and on the court or on the field.

**jackmd** · 11-21-2004, 05:55 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

2 days of reflection and the bulk of the blame should fall on Artest. He should not have reacted the way he did to the thrown glass. He needed to demonstrate some restraint. Of course, he has already shown an inability to do this many times in the past. If he stays out of the stands none of this happens. I think its a mentality Artrest developed sometime ago. He seems to think despite all that he has that the world is in some way against him. A lot of professional athletes seem to have this warped sense of reality. They need a little gratitude in their attitude. I suspect Sprewell will be stepping up to support Artest.

**sdman** · 11-21-2004, 08:51 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

I agree that it is artest's fault for the most part. But at the end after all the melee was basically when a couple of those drunk fans wandered on the court I think the players were absolutely justified in beating them up. Never ever go into the stands but when they come onto the court in a threatening manner a player has a right to defend himself.
But they were way out of line going into the stands. I still enjoy the nba playoffs but the reg. season is basically unwatchable.
I used to live in Minneapolis for awhile and enjoyed major league sports. But the thing I really hated about it were all the intoxicated fans at the games. That is why I just have enjoyed going to sdsu games. Great atmosphere, not many drunk people except the occasional student, and just a lot of fun.
I would give wallace five games suspension, artest the rest of the season and the other 2 thugs who went into the stands looking to kick some tail about 25-30 games each.
When I watch the jacks play most of those kids are the kind of people you can easily pull for. Nice kids. When I watch an NBA game a lot of those guys seem like unthankful, miserable, self-entitled people who are just hard to like. That is why I don't follow the nba much until the final four are left in the playoffs.

**Texas_Jacks_Fan** · 11-21-2004, 09:31 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

This is hard for me (a very patriotic, flag waving American) to admit, but I got a certain amount of enjoyment watching our latest NBA dream team get thumped in the olympics this past Summer. For all of the reasons everyone has mentioned above.

**OK_Jackrabbit** · 11-21-2004, 09:54 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

sdman is right. If you draw a line and say players can't go into the stands, the same goes for fans crossing that line and coming onto the court.

And I'm afraid I felt like Texas_Jacks_Fan when the millionaire team lost in Athens. I found myself rooting for their obviously more motivated opponents. The NBA really isn't very interesting to me. I have a hard time even getting excited about "elite" college sports. Here at OU, the players are basically professional athletes. They rule the community and there are rarely consequences for their behavior. This year one of our football players was kicked off the team, but only after he sent a guy to the hospital. Later, we found out he'd had three other similar incidents where people ended up in the hospital. A normal OU student would be kicked out on a student code violation after one such assault. A normal OU student would lose their scholarships after being arrested for drugs. Athletes don't lose their scholarships because of drug offenses because their scholarships are privately endowed. And the student code somehow doesn't apply to them. Nice.

I'm at a point where I have to know something about graduation rates before I'll root for a team. OU didn't graduate a basketball player during Kelvin Sampson's tenure until last year. That's one graduate in seven or eight years. The football team is in the 30 percent range, a far cry from Big Ten schools like Iowa (60+) and Purdue (70+). SDSU is up there near 70 percent for football and 73 percent overall, which is fantastic.

Luckily, we have great student athletes and coaches at SDSU who respect the game AND the institution.

**jackmd** · 11-22-2004, 08:38 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

Pistons fans and Coyote fans share their propensity to throw things, poor-sports. (I won't mention Augie fans):

S.D.'s had ugly sports scenes, too

Commentary by By Darrell Shoemaker, Journal Sports Writer

RAPID CITY --
Friday's scene in Detroit also reminded me of an incident nearly 25 years ago in Vermillion.

I was a freshman working as an assistant in the Sports Information Office at the University of South Dakota. Growing up, I had heard the stories of live chickens, live and dead jackrabbits being tossed on the floor of USD-South Dakota State basketball games. I even heard the legendary story of State fans tossing out a frozen dead coyote that beaned one of their own cheerleaders.

But the USD-SDSU rivalry took an ugly turn in 1980 when, in the last minute of the Coyotes-Jackrabbits basketball game in Vermillion, a USD student tossed a bottle from the stands, striking a Jackrabbit player in the face.

I remember the blood streaming from the player's face. I remember USD coach Jack Doyle walking to the area where the fan threw the bottle and demanding to know which student had tossed the bottle. The student was ultimately identified and he was hoisted on the shoulders of fellow USD students and brought to the floor to the waiting arms of security.

Weeks later, I traveled to Brookings with Sports Information Director Mike Mahon for the second meeting between the Jacks and Coyotes. The ugly incident in Vermillion had received national attention and USD officials requested that only essential personnel attend the game in Brookings and ordered students to be on their best behavior.

The roof of Frost Arena was adorned with posters with themes of sportsmanship and the game went without a hitch. That is until 28 seconds remained on the clock - the very time that was on the clock when the bottle was thrown from the stands in Vermillion. SDSU called a timeout and during the intermission, a student tossed out an inflatable whiskey bottle that fell to the arena floor. It was a cool, calm and subtle reminder of the nasty incident in Vermillion.

**JACKGUYII** · 11-22-2004, 09:18 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

I have been a long time Viking,Twins,Timberwolves fan. As professional sports become increasingly more about greed and self promotion I am becoming less and less a fan. I would much rather plunk down my hard earned money for season tickets for the Jacks than subsidize the selfish individuals that make up professional sports.

**MilwaukeeJacksAlum** · 11-22-2004, 11:56 AM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

amen

**OK_Jackrabbit** · 11-22-2004, 01:32 PM

Re: Pistons vs Pacers

I don't see many true professionals like John Havlicek, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, or Michael Jordan among this crowd of selfish jerks in the NBA today. I'm sure there are some good people in the NBA, but I don't have the patience to watch those boring, one-on-one offenses or the lame defense long enough to care.