UND and the Big Sky

[jackmd]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

USD would have loved to go DI with the rest of the NCC. However, the NCAA has stated that no new conferences will be considered for the DI ranks, time and time again. There was never an option for the NCC to move to DI, never.

USD does not have the support from students, alumni, or admininstration to even consider a move to DI "on their own". They would have to ride someones coat tails and it sure won't be ours. Forget about USD ever being DI. The way things stand now it will never happen.

[coyotefanatic]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

If no new conferences would be considered for the DI ranks how does the Great West fit into that statement? Is it different because it is a football only conference or because it is I-AA? There is no doubt that USD would have a tough time going DI---and it is highly, highly likely that they never will. However, define what exactly riding someone's coat tails means? There is no doubt that at some point SDSU as well as any of the schools in the Dakotas would or will likely have to go to the state legislature to ask for more money.

[JackJD]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

jackmd:

I'm curious too about the comment that the NCAA will not allow another conference. How did the Great West come about? Is there a restriction that applies just basketball?

[89rabbit]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Quick answer is yes we are talking about Men's Basketball. The NCAA will not allow a new Men's basketball Conf. to have an auto bid to the big dance. Since that is where the $$$$ is that essentially means no new all sports conferences because they would not be economically viable.

Go State! ;D

[sdman]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Did I read correctly that UND needs a 70 million dollar endowment to fund the 3 million extra needed to go d1. I thought we only needed 20 million which is a ton of money. But 70 million? Why do they think they need so much more money than we do?

[bisonguy]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Quick answer is yes we are talking about Men's Basketball.  The NCAA will not allow a new Men's basketball Conf. to have an auto bid to the big dance.  Since that is where the $$$$ is that essentially means no new all sports conferences because they would not be economically viable.

Go State!  ;D  

I thought there could be new autobids, but a new conference has to wait at least eight years (with all members being full DI schools)
Add in the transition years and if NDSU/SDSU started up a new conference, we could be competing for an autobid in 2016 or something like that. :-/

[jack100]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I thought there could be new autobids, but a new conference has to wait at least eight years (with all members being full DI schools)
Add in the transition years and if NDSU/SDSU started up a new conference, we could be competing for an autobid in 2016 or something like that. :-/

I agree. The President's and AD's of NDSU and SDSU in 2003 were both lobbying for the entire NCC to jump - you would think that this would have been a consideration. It is a moot point now though.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Did I read correctly that UND needs a 70 million dollar endowment to fund the 3 million extra needed to go d1.  I thought we only needed 20 million which is a ton of money.  But 70 million?  Why do they think they need so much more money than we do?

Yes, that's what UND President Charles Kupchella said. I've been working with an endowment here at OU, so here's how the math works:

Every $1 million yields about $40,000 annually (right now)
70 x $40,000 = $2.8 million

(By that math, SDSU's planned $20 million endowment will yield about $800,000 annually... that'll pay for quite a few scholarships.)

I guess UND is not planning on any other new revenue sources, since their stadium and arena are already maxed out. So they have to get the money from an endowment only.

It could also be a ploy to either boost fundraising or to put the kibosh on talk about the DI move.

[bisonguy]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

This is a copy of what I posted on Bisonville.com:

Gotta love public records......

From:http://www.in-forum.com/articles/ind...section=Sports

Read the whole story (letter). It's from the president of UND to the lettermen of UND's football team (obviously they want to move to DI, because their coach has been promising them they would for the last two years):

Here's my favorite part:

One of the things to be considered here is, in fact, the pride and emotion many of you expressed in your notes. I want you to know that I hate the idea that NDSU even appears to be making a move ahead of us in any way whatsoever, perhaps as much as you do - even for a little while. I, too, miss playing NDSU - especially when we win. Pride and emotion are powerful enough sometimes even to overwhelm logic and other considerations. I recognize that we may have to make this move even though, ultimately it may make no otherwise logical or financial sense to do so ... but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Here's a analysis and story about his letter--Kupchella weighs D-I move



Man, what little respect I had for Kupchella has been flushed down the toilet, on it's way to Grand Forks. : Charles is really starting to paint a self-portrait via the media, and it ain't pretty.

If UND is going to move up to DI, do it for the right reasons, not because of jealously and spite. :

[sdman]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I read where the man with 2 first names (ROGER THOMAS FROM UND) is one of the 2 finalists for the ncc commissioner's job. That to me says that UND is not going d1 for quite awhile. Why would a guy making probably 80k a year quit a job to go to another making about the same if the job would quickly disappear. Make no mistake about it the ncc will go away if und goes d1 and then the guy has no job. Makes no sense to take that job unless he has some assurances that the ncc will be around at least five years. One can't be any more connected than RT so that tells me they aren't heading for the big sky any time soon.

[JackJD]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

SDMAN asked: Why would a guy making probably 80k a year quit a job to go to another making about the same if the job would quickly disappear.

Because Grand Forks has permafrost?

[89rabbit]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I took the time to read the forum story about a letter the that UND's President sent in response to a letter he received about moving to D-I. Looks to me like UND is staying put for the near future.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=77050

Letter by Kupchella to UND football lettermen on Division I issue
The Forum
Published Saturday, December 04, 2004

The following is a copy of a letter sent recently by University of North Dakota President Charles Kupchella to UND football lettermen. The letter is in response to the group's growing push to explore moving UND to Division I in sports. The group is led by Dan Martinson and Corey Colehauer. . .

Conference Affiliation


This brings us to opportunity and specifically the Big Sky Conference. And what about the 13th of December?


We have as you might expect, been keeping tabs on the Big Sky situation. The signals have been mixed and there has recently apparently been a 180 degree turn, maybe. At first, the BS said they had no interest in expanding and if they did it would be to the west. More recently, the BS has solicited, in more of a shotgun fashion, expressions of interest which you referenced. A decision as to expand, or not, and perhaps by how much and when, is apparently going to be made at a meeting next month.


According to that article on the move by NDSU and SDSU in the Star Tribune today, "Affiliating with an all sports conference is crucial to the moves being a success." Possibilities for us in the BS conference in the future is an important question for us as well because if not the BS, where?


Let's assume the BS does expand to twelve teams. What then? We understand that they already have four applicants which are already D I. If we were to decide today to go to D I, we would still have to honor our contracts for the remainder of this year and all of next. My recollection is that we would have to notify the NCC by September of the year which would be our last. We would have to notice the NCAA by December 1 of that year. This means that at the earliest, would not be able to make the move until the fall of '06. Roger can check me on this.


Given all of the above, and depending on - at least tentative - answers to the fundamental questions posed here, perhaps all we would be able to do by Dec 13 is to indicate to the BS our interest in possibly making a move to D I, indicating the earliest date we would be able to make the move. . . .


Go State! ;D

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

No matter how you cut the cards, UND can not turn on a dime.  They need to do more than make internal studies. They need to have a Carr report and a marketing study made before they can even begin to start developing a stategy plan.  I believe Kupechella said something to the effect that even if the resources were available, meaning another Ralph Englestad with deep pockets, they would still need to develope well thought out plans or they could have problems.

One of the things that bothers Kupchella is the days he spent at Southeast Missouri during their move to D1. Apparently there was not good plans in place.

I dont think they can just copy what SDSU and NDSU  plans and implement them, because each institution has its own diversity in terms of existing athletic departments and facilities.

A Bison fan somewhere made the comment, that maybe UND wishes it built the Betty Englestad arena larger. Its brand spanking new, but it seats 4000 at most. If they built the seating at 8 to 10k, they really would be in the driver seat for facilities for basketball.

If they want to use the Ralph Ice Arena for Basketball, they almost have to have the hockey team on the road.  So jugling schedules in itself could be a challenge. Down the road, it could create missed opportunities in scheduling D1 schools for basketball, when you are forced to honor an established hockey schedule. I dont know how much time is needed to switch from one sport to the other. Ice is frozen H2O is it not?

SDSU should not feel threaten by this talk as its just that. I listened to Roger Thomas, UND AD on the KFGO broadcast at Pittsburgh State Vs UND football game yesterday.  He seem very pensive about all the publicity about the move.  He seemed to express that he had a big work load ahead of him. Maybe the Commish of the NCC seems like a way to get his wife back to SD and escape the headaches developing up North. ;D

[bisonguy]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

UND's athletic budget posted a loss of over $400k during FY2004, and somewhere around $380k in losses the previous year. They have a long way to go, if they think they can raise the money for DI. Tickets are nearly maxed out ($18 for football- no GA or lower options), BB tickets for $12 reserved, $8 GA.

They have about $2.5MM that has to be generated by donations, and an AD whose future job might be based on whether or not UND stays in DII. A friggin' soap opera, indeed. ;D ;D

[SDhoopfan]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

The NCC as we all know it is gone and major changes are on the horizon. Meetings are scheduled for December with members of NCC and NSIC. December 13 will be a very interesting day and not just for SDSU. Rumor has it the Big Sky is interested in pairing NDSU and UND as travel partners. More after the 13th.