UND and the Big Sky

[Jack]

I have nothing to prove this but I'd bet my next paycheck that UND is working hard in quiet circles to become a member of the Big Sky Conference, along with North Dakota State University. NDSU officials wouldn't mind it one bit as they can have the best of both worlds --- DI status and a longstanding rivalry. I'd suggest we hang onto our collective hats.

[dnk]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Hey, stay positive. The BSC is going to accept all of the
ex-NCC schools. . Now wouldn't that be the best of
all worlds. Seriously I wonder if UND has the resources
at this time to make a move. Also I think UNC is a little
suspect as far as the $'s go.
Also, we have to keep the SDSU-NDSU rivalry going.
It is going to be a good one. I think the administrations
at both schools have worked so hard together through
this process that they both feel some loyalty to each
other. At least I hope that is the case.

[footballfan]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

For some reason, I don't trust UND farther than I can see. I believe they are working overtime to wiggle there way into the better graces of the BSC. But......I seriously think that SDSU & NDSU will get in..soon. I also hope the other naysayers......have to go look for something on there own......We do all the hard work and they walkin and take advantage of it......



Go Jacks !!!!!

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I think UND and the BSC is wishful thinking and I would imagine there are many Nodaks who miss the UND-NDSU match ups just as I miss the SDSU-USD match up.

I am over at D2Football.com now and then. There is a long time Coyote Fan who is bothered with the reality of the PSAC and RMAC proposal that may show up at this coming NCAA convention. This proposal would lower the football scholarship level from 36 to 24 He was not happy staying D2 and hoped USD would go D1.

There are lots of feeling like that out there including in Grand Forks. More pressure is probably being put on President Kupechella at UND, who like Abbott at USD has said they will stay D2 and work towards quality programs.

I wished I had the link to a GF newspaper article but some time back some offical from UND was concerned about asking the Englestad Estate for more money in order to finish the basketball facitily attached to the REA Ice Facility. Plus, the Ralph Englestad's estate are still in charge of running the REA facility and also seem to be making more and more decisions in the athletic department. Having a generous gift from one donor is a mixed bag as UND is finding out.

I dont have access to www.siouxsports.com, but from from time to time interesting things are posted to that board. Its a fan board like this one, but once and in a while interesting things come out. Be careful what you say as their moderator does not tolerate trashing UND or its mascot. That would explain why I no longer have access.

The Alerus arrangement for football in Grand Forks is not ideal. The City of Grand Forks makes money hand over fist while, UND only seems to have a place to play indoors. The capacity is 13,000 so going to D1AA and wanting to draw larger crowds would mean a new facility some where maybe outdoors again. Memorial Field is not that bad of place, but toss of the coin on a windy day can spell defeat for the loser of the coin toss.

Another thing that makes it difficult for UND is that the REA and the ALerus came on line about the same time and for a town of 75,000 having two of these type of facilities makes for competition for all kinds of conventions, concerts and what have you. You cant heat and cool the REA on hydrogen, you have to use real sources of energy that cost money.

So if UND is serious about D1AA and the BSC they need to have a real serious study made. Then too they are about 3 to 4 years behind SDSU and NDSU in moving on from D2. Sitting back and watching as Roger Thomas the AD has suggested is not the easy way. Using NDSU or SDSU'S dated Carr report as a guide may not work and they really need to have their own study made. Unless someone can tell me otherwise a study to move has not be order or in the works at UND.

Also yesterday Fort Hays State was admitted to MIAA the conference that includes Pitt State and NWMSU. FHSU replaces Missour-Rolla, so that conference will have to expand further to accept UNO. The point being UNO is not going anywere either.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

There is a short in the Argus this morning that may or may not explain what is going on at UND. It is possible I suppose to host the D2 events and be in the process of moving up to D1. ??? ??? ???

UND may host DII football finals

GRAND FORKS, N.D. - The University of North Dakota and the Alerus Center want to host NCAA Division II football championship games.

The 2007, 2008 and 2009 Division II finals are up for bid this year.

The tournament has been played in Florence, Ala., the past several years. It will be in Florence through 2006.

Charlie Jeske, Alerus Center executive director, said the Grand Forks Events Center Commission and UND are discussing the bid process for the three championship games.

Jeske said he isn't sure whether UND or the Alerus Center will be the lead organization in the bid. "We're both going to be involved," Jeske said.

The application deadline is Dec. 1.

The NCAA Division II Football Committee will review bids during the week of the title game in December in Florence. Some cities will be invited to make formal presentations in early February.

[Jacks-D1]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

My prediction: UND will make the move to DI in the next 3 to 4 years, and will seek to join the Big Sky Conf (after SDSU and NDSU have already been accepted, of course). This will leave USD in a terrible spot as the NCC will be all but dead, but they won't do anything about it and won't move up to DI b/c for whatever reason they simply don't believe they have what it takes to be in DI.

[bisonguy]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

On the WDAY news tonight, Steve Hallstrom reported about his interview with Phil Harmeson, who is the right hand man to the UND's president Kupchella. Supposedly a "Thanks, but no thanks" response was given to the Big Sky when the conference informed UND of possible expansion. President Kupchella does not think that a move to DI is financially possible by UND. Harmeson thinks the DII football grant reduction legislation has the needed votes to not allow it to pass. Apparantly, the vast majority of UND coaches oppose a move to DI.

Looks like NDSU/SDSU are still possible travel partners (as if there was any doubt ;D).

On another note, I was informed that some Big Sky fans emailed the Big Sky presidents that NDSU and SDSU should be admitted to the Big Sky. Nice to know we have some campaigning going on outside of our respective universities for us. ;D ;D

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Bisonguy:
Thanks for the report. I find this to be more of the reality than what some UND fans and alums would like reality to be. Apparently Kupachella has resisted pressure from constituencies up to this point and finds it comfortable to stay at the D2 level. Very interersting

Even if UND were to consider the move they still would have a lot of work to do including feasibilty and marketing studies, all which take time.

It seems like UNC did little in terms of studies and sometimes you wonder where they are and where they are going in the reclassification period. Then again maybe the public may not have full disclosure in what is going on what their plans are for programs and facilities.

I think SDSU/NDSU have a leg up on the other possible applicants to the Big Sky by having completed these studies by outside sources and also being able to inform the visitation committee on where each instittuition is in terms of the recommendations made by each study. Carr and the marketing studies were money well spent.

[sdman]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I have been to Grand Forks about 10 times for various sdsu events over the years and have even had a chance to see a couple of men's hockey games there. When I look around at their facilities I wish we had what they have and yet we can afford to go d1. Why they can't afford to go is bewildering. On the surface it appears they have enough money but obviously I am judging based on their nice facilities. I hope UND eventually goes d1 as long as it doesn't hurt our chances at conf affiliation

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

There are two things that the UND fans have complained about on SiouxSports.com and one is the Alerus contract for football favors the city Of GF and not UND. in other words with a good 12000 crowd at the Alerus the city walks away with a good piece of the ticket revenue. I suspect the reason is that the Alerus was built with some revenue bonds, and the debt service for those bonds have to come somewhere and that probably would explain their ambitous take of the ticket revenue.

The Ralph Englestad estate built and still holds title to the REA ice arena. Again there have been complaints about how the management company owed by the Ralph Englestad estate it trying to take over the management of the UND athletic department. Its dirty linen so not too much is said on the message board.

Granted their facilities are very nice and better than what we may have at SDSU, but the problem is that other people have got a voice in their operation and that leads to problems we dont have at SDSU.

[JackJD]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Interesting discussion on facilities and money.

I loosely follow the discussions at the U of MN...they really need their own outdoor football stadium for 1) fan support and 2) revenue. The deal with the Dome just isn't a good deal for them.

We all know about the problems the pro teams have with the Dome in Minneapolis. One team gets most of the revenue from concessions.

SDSU's facilities need a lot of work but I'm thankful they are the school's facilities. The school continues to get all of the gate revenue, something from concessions etc. etc. Maybe we're lucky we don't have an REA, Alerus or FargoDome! Those are all fantastic facilities but it seems the schools are not getting as much financial benefit from their teams using those facilities as they probably deserve. Maybe its better to hang in there for the long-haul on fundraising so that State owns and controls its sports destiny.

[Alumguy]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

Based on today's Fargo Forum, Jack may have nailed this one. We are in for dog fight.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

What is really puzzling in my mind is the intercircle of decision makers of the Big Sky regarding new membership. i. e. Presidents of current members. At one point, the mood was adamant about no new members. Now we seem to have all sorts of flirtation out there including overtures to UND, who once said no thank you. Also there are rumors that the weaker members of the Big Sky are not living up to expections of their membership requirements. It really a surprising and tension filled situation which may be more clear with the Dec 13 meeting of the BSC. Several shoes are yet to be heard dropping. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Also town and gown arrangements in the long run may NOT be good. Since UND has nearly filled Alerus at the D2 level, where do they go when they want more seating capacity? I believe the capacity is about 13,000.

I think SDSU is on the right track with ownership and only needing approval for new additions and buildings. If you got a city government involved, its another big hoop to jump through.

No matter what UND chooses to do, SDSU needs to continue to focus on their own challenges and make our best case before the Big Sky Conference.

[jackmd]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I'll stand by my signature line when it comes to issues like this. We can't control what UND does. Anyone think the NCC can survive this latest news? I wonder what the response from UNO will be. We know what USD will say, they don't have any options.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND and the Big Sky

I was lurking on Sioux Sports and found this.

http://www.in-forum.com/pdfs/BigSkyletter.pdf

http://www.in-forum.com/pdfs/UNDresponseletter.pdf