DI Conference Hunt

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

SDSUFAN and sdman,

You seem awfully pessimistic this morning. I read nothing but good things from the WDAY post. Sounds to me like the Big Sky has given up the I-A downgrade dream and is starting to get over the whole travel cost thing. The part about Track and Cross-Country being REALLY important to them bodes well for NDSU and SDSU. To me our chances keep going up the more I hear from out West. You are right that we will know more very shortly, when the BSC Presidents meet. I also agree that we need to be patient, but I feel good about our chances. I will leave you with a quote from the Argus. Montana State’s President Geoffrey Gamble said, “From my perspective, the Dakota schools have always been in the packages I've been interested in,”.

Go State! ;D

P.S. our chances of getting into a conference sooner rather then later go up if the Mid-Con and Big Sky feel like they need to beat the other to the punch, as far as an invite goes. The Big Sky doesn’t have a lot of options and the Mid-Con is interested (or has as a member) in all of them. This kind of reminds me of selling my last house.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

SDSUFAN and sdman,

You seem awfully pessimistic this morning.  I read nothing but good things from the WDAY post.  Sounds to me like the Big Sky has given up the I-A downgrade dream and is starting to get over the whole travel cost thing.  The part about Track and Cross-Country being REALLY important to them bodes well for NDSU and SDSU.  To me our chances keep going up the more I hear from out West.  You are right that we will know more very shortly, when the BSC Presidents meet.  I also agree that we need to be patient, but I feel good about our chances.  I will leave you with a quote from the Argus.  Montana State’s President Geoffrey Gamble said, “From my perspective, the Dakota schools have always been in the packages I've been interested in,”.  

Go State!  ;D

P.S. our chances of getting into a conference sooner rather then later go up if the Mid-Con and Big Sky feel like they need to beat the other to the punch, as far as an invite goes.  The Big Sky doesn’t have a lot of options and the Mid-Con is interested (or has as a member) in all of them.  This kind of reminds me of selling my last house.

I guess I have been intimidated by the wisdom and logic of our Sioux Falls talk show host. ;D

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

I guess I have been intimidated by the wisdom and logic of our Sioux Falls talk show host. ;D

LOL! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Go State! 8)

[OKC_Poke]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

To all SDSU Fans,

I know you want to be in a conference ASAP! But don't worry about it. Plus, there's no need to worry.

You WILL be in a conference soon wether it's the Big Sky or the Mid-Con. As I see it, it's a win-win sitaution (sp?) for the newest members of Division I.

Either conference will be a great "home" for South Dakota State.

To quote a famous '80s line: "Don't worry Be happy." ;D

[sdman]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

I am quite optimistic about our chances over a five year span. I would love to get a conf invite right away especially from the BSC but am just putting myself in the shoes of a univ pres. What incentive do they have to rush us into their conference. OUr options are only 2 and the mid continent has other schools they are looking at also. I think we will be an independent for 3-5 years and then get a conference after we have demonstrated a commitment to competing at the BSC level. I hope I am wrong bc I will be much more interested going to games as a conference member than as an independent. We shall see. Do most people think we are going to get a conference after one year? Norman Vincent Peale would be proud of you optimistic Jack fans. I am cautiously optimistic but think 3 to 5 years. I don't think that would be bad at all.

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

News from Fargo:

Big Sky to revisit potential expansion
By Jeff Kolpack,The Forum
Published Saturday, August 07, 2004

Monday, for the second time in 18 months, the Big Sky Conference's Council of Presidents will meet to discuss expansion.

Montana State University President Geoffrey Gamble . . . says the meeting at the Salt Lake City airport could carry a different tone than the first, which yielded no action.

"My hope is to see if we can't get some movement out of the presidents," Gamble said. "My hope is that we're serious. I would like my colleagues to seriously examine this." . . .

At eight teams, the Big Sky has one of the smallest memberships of Division I leagues that play basketball.

The Ivy League, Mountain West Conference, Patriot League and West Coast Conference also have eight teams each.

A conference that falls below seven members risks losing millions of NCAA dispersal dollars.

"Everything you read has a potential impact," said Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton. "For instance, if the WAC (Western Athletic Conference) loses San Jose State, would they come hard at our league?" . . . .

"My sense is they are ready to seriously consider expansion," Chapman said of the Big Sky. "One thing I wouldn't do is to presume to know what they're ultimately going to do. But there certainly seems to be a sense of seriousness."



Go State! ;D

P.S. sdman, I will stick with my first answer and say we are in a Conference by the '06-'07 school year.

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

Yet another story from the Fargo Paper:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/ind...section=Sports

NDSU, Big Sky stack up favorably
By Jeff Kolpack,The Forum
Published Sunday, August 08, 2004


Big Sky Conference Commissioner Doug Fullerton gave North Dakota State a favorable ranking in his own evaluation of league schools and potential members.

Whether that means NDSU is a good fit for Big Sky membership probably won't be known for a while. The league's Council of Presidents meets Monday in Salt Lake City to discuss expansion, but it's doubtful the presidents will take any formal action.

"The most aggressive thing would be for the presidents to come out of the meeting and tell me to put together a committee to contact institutions," Fullerton said. . . .

He listed three main criteria: institutional fit, geography and commitment to athletics.

Asked how NDSU ranks, Fullerton said, "Very well. There is one major problem and that is where they live."

That was an issue when the presidents discussed expansion in February of 2003.

"We've been down this path before," said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor.

In the interest of being prepared, Taylor -- with the help of a volunteer he wouldn't name -- is putting together comparisons of travel costs in the Big Sky if NDSU and South Dakota State were included or excluded.

"If they agree to expand, it will cost them something," Taylor said.

For instance: What would it cost each Big Sky school to travel to the University of Northern Colorado or Southern Utah as compared to NDSU? . . .

NDSU's academic standing appears to put it in line with all Big Sky schools. One of the factors Fullerton used in his evaluation was the Carnegie Classification rankings, which puts schools in certain classifications based on "descriptive data about that institution."

In other words, when college presidents say another school is a "like-minded institution," a reference includes the Carnegie report.

NDSU is considered one of 64 public intensive doctoral/research universities in the country. So, too, are Big Sky schools Idaho State, Montana State, University of Montana, Northern Arizona and Portland State (Ore.). It's the second-best tier behind extensive doctoral/research. . . .

Eastern Washington and California State-Sacramento are classified as Master's Colleges and Universities I while Weber State (Utah) is considered a Master's Colleges and Universities II school. . . .

Academic standing could be construed as important mainly because of who makes the decision on expansion.

"It's a presidential decision," Fullerton said. . . .


Just in case you were wondering SDSU is also an intensive doctoral/research university. 8)

Go State! ;D

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

Yet another story from the Fargo paper. Her are excerpts:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/ind...section=Sports

NDSU would add tennis for Big Sky
By Jeff Kolpack, The Forum
Published Sunday, August 08, 2004

North Dakota State will add men's and women's tennis if it gains admission into the Big Sky Conference.

It appears the best possible outcome for NDSU would be for the presidents to approve a committee to contact potential members, said Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton.

One of the Big Sky's mandates is that a school sponsor a specific number of sports. In NDSU's case, it would have to resurrect a tennis program that was dropped in the 1990-91 school year for budgetary reasons.

"If they're saying the only way to get in is that you need to offer the core sports, then we would not let that be a roadblock," said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor.

NDSU has three sports not included in the Big Sky: wrestling, baseball and softball.

NDSU wrestling coaches have been working on forming the Western Wrestling League with the likes of South Dakota State, Air Force, Wyoming and Northern Iowa for the past year. Baseball and softball would compete as independents.

Taylor said NDSU would not drop a sport if it did add tennis. . . .

"As a commissioner, you have to be adamant that everybody offer the same sports," he said. "It has served us so well. We have our core sports and we demand them." . . .



Of the four schools previously identified by the Big Sky as potential new members (UNC, Southern Utah, NDSU and SDSU), only SDSU currently sponsors all of the Big Sky’s core sports.

Go State! ;D

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

Highlights from the Argus:

http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Mondayarticle1.shtml

SDSU waiting to hear about Big Sky's plans
Chris Solari
Argus Leader

published: 8/9/2004

Conference presidents meet today with expansion on the table and Jackrabbits on their minds

Depending on who you ask, today's meeting of Big Sky Conference presidents could be another instance of ongoing discussions about expansion or the league could be ready to pounce.

"I think this is going to be a meeting in which we are going to focus sharply and narrowly on the issues of either fishing or cutting bait," said George Dennison, the president of the University of Montana. "We'll probably be doing some fishing."

Four fish are on the hook, according to conference commissioner Doug Fullerton: South Dakota State, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado and Southern Utah.

Though SDSU will have no direct input into the meeting, it's the outcome that the Jackrabbits are interested in.

"We do know the presidents are meeting, and hopefully we can get some feedback from them on which way they're going to move in their conference," SDSU Athletic Director Fred Oien said.

Today's meeting is scheduled for 10 a.m. MDT in Salt Lake City.

"Our expansion discussion is an ongoing one," Fullerton said. "The most I would see coming out of this is a request for me to do more due diligence, to find out more about some schools. That would be the best I could see. I don't think we're ready to expand tomorrow."

SDSU and NDSU approached the Big Sky in February 2003 about joining the league, when SDSU was just exploring the idea of moving to Division I. At that time, travel distance was a primary concern of the presidents, and they told the two Dakota schools to continue their conference search elsewhere.

Since then, Idaho - considered one of the Big Sky's prime targets if it happened to drop from Division I-A to I-AA in football - joined the Western Athletic Conference.

One of the main reasons the league is looking at adding members is to retain automatic berths in NCAA tournaments, especially the financially lucrative men's basketball event. Conferences must have seven members to get an automatic bid, and the Big Sky currently has eight.

"We thought it was important, or at least some people thought it was important, to let things settle out (with other conferences) before we went ahead," Dennison said. "It's always been clear we could use one to three more members to hedge against that lower limit to qualify for tournaments, basketball specifically." . . .

Their is still a possibility that the Big Sky could move from I-AA in football to I-A en masse, Fullerton said. He sees that move being the only reason for the Big Sky to think about expanding to 12 teams. At that point, the league could split into two divisions and have a conference title game to earn a top bowl bid. Teams in I-AA earn their spots in a 16-team playoff. . . .

The Big Sky presidents have maintained all along that the academic profile of both SDSU and NDSU fits the league. The added costs of travel to Brookings and Fargo have been major questions, though Fullerton admits that it's neither easy to get to Flagstaff nor inexpensive to fly to Bozeman, Mont.

"The landscape has changed, and that pushed the presidents a bit," Fullerton said. "Some people on the fence may be slipping into another column right now."

Until then, the folks in Brookings continue to do what they have for months - with both the Big Sky and the Mid-Continent Conference.

Said Oien: "We're anxiously awaiting feedback of which way they decide to go."


Go State!

[89rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

Here is another good story about the Big Sky Expansion.
Kent does a great job of comparing and contrasting the four possible member. I found it interesting that according to Kent's research SDSU has the largest athletic budget of the four. Bigger then even NDSU's

http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articlei...RnP2E6amT4mX4B

Big Sky Changes, Again a Topic of Conversation


Kent Schmidt, I-AA Western Columnist


On August 9th, there will be yet another Big Sky expansion meeting. . . .

Southern Utah
Location: Cedar City, UT (21,535 population)
Student Enrollment: 5,881 (2003-2004 year)
Distance to Closest Big Sky School by ground: 287 miles to Flagstaff (Northern Arizona)
Athletic Expenses: $3,939,674 (2002-2003 year)
Football Expenses: $962,834 (2002-2003 year)
Football Stadium: Eccles Coliseum (8,500 capacity)
Proximity of school to an Airport: 170 miles (Las Vegas), small airport in Cedar City
Current Athletic teams: Football, Baseball, Basketball (men’s & women’s), Volleyball (women’s), Cross Country (men’s and women’s), golf (men’s), gymnastics, soccer (women’s), softball, tennis (women’s), indoor and outdoor track and field (men’s and women’s)

Northern Colorado
Location: Greeley, CO (76,000 population)
Student Enrollment: 11,380 (2003-2004 year)
Distance to Closest Current Big Sky School by ground: 497 miles to Ogden (Weber State)
Athletic Expenses: $4,083,357 (2002-2003 year)
Football Expenses: $887,817 (2002-2003 year)
Football Stadium: Nottingham Stadium (6,500 capacity)
Proximity of school to an airport: 68 miles (Denver)
Current Athletic Teams: football, baseball, basketball (men’s and women’s), cross country (women’s), golf (men’s and women’s), soccer (women’s), softball, swimming (women’s), tennis (men’s and women’s), outdoor track and field (men’s and women’s), volleyball (women’s), wrestling

North Dakota State
Location: Fargo, ND (90,599 population)
Student Enrollment: 11,623 (2003-2004 year)
Distance to Closest Current Big Sky School by ground: 750 miles to Bozeman (Montana State)
Athletic Expense: $4,598,273 (2003-2004 year)
Football Expense: $1,131,753 (2003-2004 year)
Football Stadium: Fargodome (18,700 capacity)
Proximity of school to an airport: 2 miles (Fargo)
Current Athletic Teams: football, baseball, basketball (men’s and women’s), cross country (men’s and women’s), golf (men’s and women’s), soccer (women’s), softball, track and field (men’s and women’s), volleyball (women’s), wrestling

South Dakota State
Location: Brookings, SD (18,504 population)
Student Enrollment: 10,561 (2003-2004 year)
Distance to Closest Current Big Sky School by ground: 900 miles to Bozeman (Montana State)
Athletic Expense: $4,976,059 (2002-2003 year)
Football Expense: $845,483 (2002-2003 year)
Football Stadium: Coughlin Alumni Stadium (16,000 capacity)
Proximity of school to an airport: 62 miles (Sioux Falls)
Current Athletic Teams: football, baseball, basketball (men’s and women’s), cross country (men’s and women’s), golf (men’s and women’s), track and field (men’s and women’s), swimming (men’s and women’s), tennis (men’s and women’s), soccer (women’s), softball, volleyball (women’s), wrestling, equestrian (in 2005)

To Note: Populations obtained from each cities’ chamber of commerce, student enrollments obtained from each school’s web site, all travel distances from mapquest.com, and all athletic expenses from ope.ed.gov/athletics/.

All four schools seem to have advantages and disadvantages. Southern Utah is a good geographical fit and good travel partner for Northern Arizona but would be tough to travel for other members other then Northern Arizona. SUU, however, has the lowest athletic budget of the four. Northern Colorado located near Denver would be easy to travel to and from and has most of the current Big Sky sports. Northern Colorado would pose a travel problem as it is nearly 500 miles from a current or expansion possible school (Weber State). North Dakota State and South Dakota State seem to be a package deal. If both were admitted, the travel would be relatitivly easy (being 190 miles apart) as these two would be travel partners but either would be unlikely to be added alone as both are no closer then 750 miles from an existing Big Sky school. NDSU and SDSU also arguably have the best facilities of the four schools considered and the larger athletic budgets.

All schools would need to add sports to meet the Big Sky’s minimum sports with the exception of South Dakota State. North Dakota State would need to add men’s and women’s tennis. Northern Colorado would need to add indoor track and field for both men and women and also men’s cross country. Southern Utah would need to add men’s tennis and women’s golf. . . .

“With the lessening of the I-A rules, absolutely this (moving up to I-A) is something we would consider,” Fullerton said. Also, if the revenue situation was right financially with the BCS (Bowl Champions Series) to share to all I-A teams, we would consider moving up.”

“But we would like to first get our overall conference (football) attendance to a 15,000 average.” . . .


I think only two of the schools have stadiums bigger then 15,000 I wonder which two . . . ??? ;D

Go State! 8)

[91rabbit]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

Re: Coughlin

The desired upgrades to Coughlin have been talked about for many years. While those would obviously enhance the facility, I think that it will compare very favorably in whatever conference the Jacks eventually join.

In NCC terms, CAS had much going for it (in fact, I contend it was the best stadium in the former NCC). Namely, it has natural grass and nobody else played on it. I think allowing BHS to play on it was a big mistake and such arrangements ceasing should be part of the move to D1. Compare CAS without a Friday night game with Roberts, Howard Wood or Blakeslee. Those fields were in fair to horrible shape on Saturday afternoon following a Friday night beating. Our field was always soft and lush.

Also, consider the stadium's position relative to I-29 and Brookings proper. Having lived in Ann Arbor for five years (Michigan Stadium is very near I-94 but putting 110,000 people in there causes immense traffic problems), Coughlin's location is a great asset.

Being on the edge of town/campus gives a better view (compare Selke Field in St Cloud with its former prison yard wall) than its competitors. All the others (USD, UNO, NDSU and UND) have turf (no comparison to grass). UNCs old field was tolerable; I don't know if any local HS played on it.

Bottom line: CAS will be an above average facility wherever the Jacks end up.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

After making an examination of Bison Kents analysis and article, I think SDSU does have something to offer a D1 conference.  The total budget numbers are a suprise but maybe not since NDSU does have  less sports than SDSU.

I think the difference in total budgets can be accounted for by the fact that  NDSU has investmented more for a quality programs.  This extra investments would probably be in the form of better salaries for coaches, more football recruitment in Wisconsin and Illinois where there is no reciposity, and maybe having paid more football guarentees for home games, such as Tusculum last year.
The guarentees help bring quality teams into Fargo for non conference games, so they dont have beat up on the NSIC teams like Moorhead and UM-Morris which are close to Fargo.  There are probably other differences between SDSU and NDSU, but these are the ones I can think of off hand.

As much respect as I have Eric Eidness, I hope we DONT Play Southwest unless they become a dominate team in D2 and NSIC.  Then the local interest will matter and a game like that will draw a crowd, but I dont think we want to squash teams local teams when we can get a national ranked D1AA team to come to Brookings. This years rough schedule will certainly give us exposure if nothing else.  If in the future we are like Montana and play one D2 game per year, it should always be a top D2 school like UNO, UND, NWMSU or Pitt State to name a few.

SUU is a growing area and probably most of us have never heard or been to Cedar City. I was there last spring and its on I-15 south of Salt Lake City. You see new housing for miles from I-15 and the campus is very new as is their football facility that is dug into the hill. This may be the one and only away game that I make this year.

None the less I am proud of SDSU numbers and we are on the right track.  

I sure all the information that Kent provided and more details will be made available to the BSC schools in making their decision sometime down the road.

[Bison_Kent]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

NDSU has since gone up but I kept the 2002-03 stats to keep all teams compariable as I didn't have all the figures from all teams and it wouldn't be fair to compare unlike years.

NDSU is moving up to around $7 million for the upcoming season. SDSU is moving up too but just at a slower rate.

I can't wait to hear what happened at the meetings today.

[SDSU_TUBA]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

Here is the Press Release from the meetings

http://www.bigskyconf.com/article.asp?articleid=58932

Expansion was the topic of discussion in a meeting of the Big Sky Conference Presidents Council held Monday in Salt Lake City. The council covered a range of issues including developing a set of expansion criteria and formalizing the expansion process. The Presidents Council discussed adding between one and three schools or remaining at the current eight-team makeup.


The Presidents Council moved to proceed with the expansion process by first accepting official letters of interest from those institutions that desire membership. Institutions that become possible expansion candidates will then be evaluated using a set of criteria approved by the Presidents Council. Some of the established criteria will include academic quality, athletic competitiveness, commitment to gender equity, commitment to student-athlete success and geography with regards to cost of travel and travel time.


Following the evaluation period a committee will be put together to visit the campuses of expansion candidates in the spring of 2005. The traveling committee will be comprised of at least one president, one athletic director and one faculty athletic representative from the Big Sky along with Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton. A final decision regarding expansion is expected to come in late spring of 2005.


The meeting was chaired by Weber State University President Dr. F. Ann Millner, the Chair of the Presidents Council, with all seven other Big Sky Presidents in attendance. Due to a flight cancelation, Montana State University President Dr. Geoffrey Gamble participated via speakerphone.


The Big Sky Conference is currently made up of eight institutions over seven states - Eastern Washington University, Idaho State University, the University of Montana, Montana State University, Northern Arizona University, Portland State University, Sacramento State and Weber State University. In 2004-05 the Big Sky will be entering the fourth year of its current membership.

[bisonguy]

Re: DI Conference Hunt

NDSU has since gone up but I kept the 2002-03 stats to keep all teams compariable as I didn't have all the figures from all teams and it wouldn't be fair to compare unlike years.  

NDSU is moving up to around $7 million for the upcoming season.  SDSU is moving up too but just at a slower rate.  

I can't wait to hear what happened at the meetings today.

NDSU's budget is $7.7 million for 2004-2005.