Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

[JBNJBQ]

Alcorn State University (Braves)
Central Michigan University (Chippewas)
Catawba College (Indians)
Florida State University (Seminoles)
Midwestern State University (Indians)
University of Utah (Utes)
Indiana University-Pennsylvania (Indians)
Carthage College (Redmen)
Bradley University (Braves)
Arkansas State University (Indians)
Chowan College (Braves)
University of Illinois-Champaign (Illini)
University of Louisiana-Monroe (Indians)
McMurry University (Indians)
Mississippi College (Choctaws)
Newberry College (Indians)
University of North Dakota (Fighting Sioux)
Southeastern Oklahoma State University (Savages)

[HoboD]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

Im probably off topic for this site.....but this is RIDICULOUS! On what basis were these schools singles out? Because the terms refer to a race or nationality? If so, why not the Vikings? What is the difference between Fighting Sioux and Fighting Irish? Is the logis that its OK to name your team after a white group but not ethnic? If so the Fighting Germans would be OK? The entier states of Utah and Illinois are named after the tribes! The Seminole tribe SUPPORT the use of the names and gets a cut on Seminole merchandise. How does Oklahoma get by? "Oklahoma" is Choctaw for red man. The Sooners are named after a group of pioneers who literally raced in to steal the land from the Choctaw. Oh and yes, while some say the term "Sioux" is derogatory itself all of the tribes in North and South Dakota refer to themselves as Sioux as in Ogalla Sioux Tribe, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and in fact the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe website disputes the dergatory nature of the term Sioux. Here is the exact quote from its website:
The Standing Rock Sioux Reservation is situated in North and South Dakota. The people of Standing Rock, often called Sioux, are members of the Dakota and Lakota nations. "Dakota" and "Lakota" mean "friends" or "allies." The people of these nations are often called "Sioux", a term that dates back to the seventeenth century when the people were living in the Great Lakes area. The Ojibwa called the Lakota and Dakota "Nadouwesou" meaning "adders." This term, shortened and corrupted by French traders, resulted in retention of the last syllable as "Sioux."

[Jacks99]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

There's a bit of discussion in the smack thread on this. I wouldn't get too worked up over this. I haven't met anyone who is actually for getting rid of the names. It has to do with some other political correctness agenda and likely not even begun by the people that are supposedly "offended".

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

 What is the difference between Fighting Sioux and Fighting Irish?."

Not that I don't agree with you on some of your post but the difference in this example is this...Nortre Dame is a Catholic school started by the Irish Catholic church. They named themselves the Fighting Irish. The Fighting Sioux was chosen not by the Sioux nation but by UND alumni who wanted a mascot "tougher" than the "Flickertails" and they chose the "Fighting Sioux" because the "Fighting Sioux" killed Bison.

The Standing Rock Sioux Reservation is the only known supporter of the name. I believe just about every other Sioux organization has condemned it.

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

School nicknames are meant as a means of paying respect to said nickname ie "Fighting Sioux"  and "Fighting Irish"  I'm trying to think of a native American high school in the state of South Dakota that Doesn't have a Indian refrence to it.
The high school on Pine Ridge is called the "Thorpes" in honor of the great athlete Jim Thorpe. does anyone think it is a term of disrespect for Jim Thorpe? of course not.   My home town of Flandreau is home to the FIS "Indians".   The NCAA should back away from this-the argument is ridiculous. If it is successful I want the Minnesota Vikings to change because I'm disrespected because I'm Norwegian.
Give me a break!!!

The only native american college (that I know of) in my area is Baccone College (D3) in Muskogee, OK. Home of the Warriors... Why arent they on the hit list?

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

I haven't met anyone who is actually for getting rid of the names.

Um... now you have... Me.

I was taught that if someone finds the name you call them offensive, then it is.

Granted, I do think there are some names and 'traditions' that are more egregious than others. Chief Illiniwek, for example, from the University of Illinois is a very offensive symbol. For those of you who haven't seen him (and you probably haven't because most every team in the Big Ten won't allow Illinois' mascot into their stadiums or arenas) Chief Illiniwek is some white frat boy dressed up like an Indian who does a series of fake "Illini" dances. It's a completely inauthentic, pathetic, and demeaning representation.

As for your claim that Native Americans aren't involved in this effort (or are pawns of some other PC agenda), here are some facts for you to consider: The most recent (last 20 years) campaign against Native American stereotypes was started at the University of Illinois by Native Americans who were more than "supposedly" offended. Other Native Americans have protested, for example, the Washington Redskins name and mascot and "Chief Wahoo" of the Cleveland Indians.

The point is that there are real native people out there who are genuinely distressed by those names, just as you or I would be if someone started using a demeaning caricature of our ancestors to represent a sports team.

[Mike_H]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

Amen, OK.

Billy Mills said on our radio show: "I AM a warrior. I am NOT a mascot!" That is enough for me.

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

I guess we have a diffrence of opinion.

Billy Mills grew up on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

From the Pine Ridge High School website...
"in 1983 the mascot was changed to Thorpes to HONOR Jim Thorpe"

apparantly he didnt have a problem with it. and in my opinion it would be a huge HONOR.

[JBNJBQ]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

Amen, OK.

Billy Mills said on our radio show: "I AM a warrior. I am NOT a mascot!" That is enough for me.

Webster's Dictionary defines

warrior:

"A man engaged or experienced in warfare; a soldier, esp. a brave or veteran soldier."


Mascot:

"A thing, animal, or person thought to bring good luck."

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

I guess we have a diffrence of opinion.

Billy Mills grew up on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

From the Pine Ridge High School website...
"in 1983 the mascot was changed to Thorpes to HONOR Jim Thorpe"

apparantly he didnt have a problem with it.  and in my opinion it would be a huge HONOR.

Billy Mills' objections are precisely the point. He grew up in Pine Ridge. The Pine Ridge schools are NATIVE AMERICAN schools. Is Florida State a Native American school? Is FSU 'honoring' the Seminoles with their fake war whoop and 'chop' gesture? How about those Southeastern Oklahoma 'Savages'? Is that a name that 'honors' anything other than stereotypes? Is Chief Illiniwek honoring the Illini tribe with his fake war dance (the one so offensive that the Big Ten won't allow to leave Champaign/Urbana)? Hardly.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

If a high school in Cairo, GA wanted to name its team the Robinsons to honor Jackie Robinson, that would be an honor to a great athlete and individual. However, if a school wanted to name its team the coons, spades, or any other racial slurs, everyone would be against it. But it wouldn't be "political correctness" as the reason for the outrage, it would be because it is wrong. A wrong that is completely unnecessary. Same story, different race.

[JBNJBQ]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

The following is a quote by CarringtonBison taken from the Bison Board)

Re: Bad News for und*?
« Reply #16 on: Aug 18th, 2005, 11:08am »  Quote  Modify  


sorry to revive this topic, but i couldn't resist.  emailed to me today by a friend-a bit long

Now that the NCAA is in the business of legislating against "hostile and  
abusive" nicknames, let them not stop with American Indians.  

Let all of us have our say before the NCAA Can of Worms Committee.  

And so . . .  


- I am an animal lover and am offended by South Carolina's nickname of Gamecocks  
-- an obvious endorsement of the grotesque sport of cockfighting. For the NCAA  
to give its tacit approval to an activity in which proud and beautiful birds are  
bred for the purpose of mutilating and killing each other for human  
entertainment is appalling.  


- I am an advocate of gun control and I want the NCAA to explain why it allows  
Gettysburg College to use the nickname "Bullets." With nearly 30,000 gun-related  
deaths in America every year, isn't this the most "hostile and abusive" nickname  
of all?  


- I am a victim of Hurricane Charley and demand that the NCAA forbid Miami from  
ever again using its "Hurricanes" nickname. To extol the virtues of natural  
disasters that have caused devastation and death and cost our state billions of  
dollars is inexcusable.  


- I am an African-American and I am outraged by Ole Miss' nickname of Rebels,  
which is a clear glorification of the South's fight to preserve state rights and  
slavery in the Civil War.  


- I am a Christian woman and I am ins ulted by the plethora of satanic nicknames  
such as the Duke Blue Devils and Northwestern State Demons. For the NCAA to  
endorse the work of The Dark Prince himself -- the enemy of God and all of  
mankind -- is an assault on America as a Christian nation.  


- I am a Muslim man and I am offended by Holy Cross's nickname -- the Crusaders.  
Thousands of my ancestors died during the Crusades, including thousands of  
captives slaughtered in cold blood by Richard the Lionhearted in 1191.  


- I am a devout Hindu and am starting a petition to ban the nickname of the  
South Florida Bulls. The cow is a sacred animal in my religion and to caricature  
it as some sort of loony, ridiculous mascot is an insult to the 1.1 billion  
Hindus worldwide.  


- I am a peaceable pacifist from Dublin and I am disgusted by Notre Dame's  
stereotypical portrayal of the "Fighting" Irish as a bunch of rowdy, drunken  
barroom brawlers.  


- I am a snakebite victim and cannot believe the NCAA allows Florida A&M and  
Florida Southern to use two deadly snakes -- Rattlers and Moccasins -- as their  
nicknames. Poisonous snakes bite more than 8,000 Americans each year, and  
rattlers and moccasins are among the most dangerous.  


- I am of Roman descent and I am offended by Southern Cal's mascot, The Trojan  
Horse, which, according to ancient history, the Greeks used to massacre  
thousands of my ancestors in the bygone city of Troy.  


- I am a reformed alcoholic and would like to lodge a complaint against Vassar  
College calling itself the "Brewers." Binge drinking in college is an epidemic,  
with one study reporting that alcohol is a factor in 1,400 student deaths each  
year. For the NCAA to allow a nickname so closely associated to beer-making is  
criminal.  


- I am not a spokesperson for any group; I'm just a frightened citizen of a  
violent world. Wh ich is why I'm writing to complain about the nickname of the  
Ithaca College Bombers. In this day and age of suicide terrorists, isn't  
"Bombers" an affront to all of us and much more "hostile and abusive" than  
Florida State paying homage to an Indian tribe?  

Hey, NCAA, give me the proud names of the Seminoles and Chippewas any day over  
the death and destruction of Bullets and Bombers.

Could this be just the "tip" of the iceburg?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


JBNJBQ

[Mike_H]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

Webster's Dictionary defines

warrior:

"A man engaged or experienced in warfare; a soldier, esp. a brave or veteran soldier."


Mascot:

"A thing, animal, or person thought to bring good luck."

Now who's being pc? Do you know of one school called the Warriors that has G.I. Joe plastered on the wall? Also, "Warrior" is one of the least offensive native mascots, so don't get too hung up on that one to make it look like all these names bring "honor" to Native Americans.

As for whether or not this is the NCAA's fight, or if they are handling this in the right manner, that is a different subject in my mind. I happen to think the NCAA has much bigger fish to fry, but this is at least bringing the discussion forward.

[sports_buff]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

If a high school in Cairo, GA wanted to name its team the Robinsons to honor Jackie Robinson, that would be an honor to a great athlete and individual. However, if a school wanted to name its team the coons, spades, or any other racial slurs, everyone would be against it. But it wouldn't be "political correctness" as the reason for the outrage, it would be because it is wrong. A wrong that is completely unnecessary. Same story, different race.

The difference is that the Indian mascots used are not racial slurs. These Indian mascots used are the same mascots that Indian schools use. I don't think you will find an all Black school that are called the Coons. Why do so many Native Americans think that predominately white schools pick mascots for different reasons than they do. They pick mascots that they would like to honor and that they find to be fierce and tough, the same reason a lot of other schools pick their mascots, and if that is an Indian mascot then I don't see why they wouldn't be honored. Obviously not all of them are, but that doesn't mean the NCAA should be able to force schools to change it. The Seminole tribe in Florida endorses the FSU mascot. I know other Native Americans who only like teams with Indian mascots. I'm Irish, but I don't look at Notre Dame and say "hey, they are calling me a drunken brawler." Do all Irish dress like a leppercauhn and dance around like the Notre Dame mascot does, no way. But am I offended when ND does that, heck no. To be offended by that would suggest that ND is trying to make fun of their own mascot. Why would anyone do that?
In my opinion white schools who want to honor an Indian mascot is the ultimate sign of respect towards the Indian culture.

[twism]

Re: Schools on NCAA mascot hit list

Florida State threatened to sue over postseason ban
Associated Press


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- The NCAA will allow Florida State to use its Seminoles nickname in postseason play, removing the school from a list of colleges with American Indian nicknames that were restricted by an NCAA decision earlier this month.

The NCAA said it was recognizing the relationship Florida State has long enjoyed with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which assists the university with its pageantry and celebration of its culture and supports the school's use of its name.

"The staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor," NCAA senior vice president Bernard Franklin said in a statement released Tuesday. "The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree."

Florida State president T.K. Wetherell had threatened to sue the NCAA immediately after its Aug. 5 announcement that the school's highly visible nickname, "Seminoles," was defined as "hostile and abusive" by a committee.

"The two things we requested in our appeal were granted," Wetherell said. "I'm ready to play football, start school and have classes begin and all that kind of stuff."

Lee Hinkle, vice president for university relations, said the school e-mailed 250,000 alumni and friends of the NCAA decision.

"I don't think anything has brought them together quite as much as this," said Wetherell. "Whether you're a Gator, Hurricane or Bulldog, those entities believe it's a Florida decision."

Gov. Jeb Bush also applauded the NCAA's reversal.

"When you make a mistake it's important to realize it and move on," Bush said. "They came to the right conclusion ... the Seminole mascot and the tradition at Florida State, is not offensive to anyone."

The NCAA said it would handle reviews from other schools on a case-by-case basis. The Illinois Fighting Illini, Utah Utes and North Dakota Fighting Sioux are among other prominent school nicknames that remain affected by the edict.

Under the NCAA restrictions, teams with American Indian nicknames would not be able to display them on uniforms or have their mascots perform in postseason tournaments.

"The NCAA remains committed to ensuring an atmosphere of respect and sensitivity for all who participate in and attend our championships," Franklin said in the statement.

Wetherell said he has had some contact with the other schools.

"I think they [NCAA] understand, there will be other requests," Wetherell said.