St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

[filbert]

This thread is interesting . . .

http://d2football.com/board/index.php?showtopic=9442

What happens if UND and SCSU decide to follow NDSU and SDSU? Does the rest of the NCC come along for the ride this time? What if SDSU and NDSU aren't in the Mid-Con by then?

The plot thickens . . .

[bisonguy]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

I find it interesting that the NDSU AD said he wouldn't consider joining a DI NCC unless another conference home is not secured until 2009.

An autobid is the key......

[jackmd]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

An autobid is the key......

Exactly.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

Exactly.

Ditto

[SDSUFAN]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

It is really interesting to read through this four page thread over on D2. Lots of UND and USD fans chiming in with their takes.

One thing that is not clear to me even after all this time and that is if you offer D1 hockey, how much of your expenditures are related to hockey in terms of a total budget? How much revenue is raised through hockey and are there revenues that exceed expenditures and sufficent to finance other sports? When they mention SCSU who has supposely a 6 million budget, how much of the six million goes for hockey men and women? If its 4 million or 3 million, that means hockey represents 50 percent or more of the all sports budgets. I love to hear from someone knowledgable on this topic. Numbers please ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? The big numbers in budgets do not mean much if we are talking mostly hockey.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

Anyone who has ever traveled to away games to NCC schools who sponsor hockey experienced the obvious bias and emphasis on hockey over all other sports.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

Anyone who has ever traveled to away games to NCC schools who sponsor hockey experienced the obvious bias and emphasis on hockey over all other sports.

Do you know any numbers?

[joeybrownerhof]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

SDSUfan-above is a link and you can put in any school you want. After picking your school you can get total rev and exp, coach sals, etc.(links at bottom of page)  It breaks down bb and fb but not hockey, but from the numbers it does look like hockey is a good portion of budget.  As to the question of whether hockey pays for itself, I don't know, however from other articles I have read about college athtletics almost no sport operates in the black without institutional support.  Also I think SCSU averages bout 6000 fans a home game for 17 dates so having a large portion of their budget towards that sport probably makes sense, but it does seem their other programs get shortchanged.  Good luck going over the numbers.

P.S. These rev/exp reports aren't the gold standard since schools have different reporting methods but it does provide a some ballpark figures.

[SD-STATE]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

We left d2 because it was begining to get watered down with NAIA teams that no body herd of, moving up to d2.

What will happen if even more schools move up to D-1, wouldn't that in effect be a watered down D-1?

It's.... a NIGHTMARE! ;D

[SDSUFAN]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

SDSUfan-above is a link and you can put in any school you want. After picking your school you can get total rev and exp, coach sals, etc.(links at bottom of page)  It breaks down bb and fb but not hockey, but from the numbers it does look like hockey is a good portion of budget.  As to the question of whether hockey pays for itself, I don't know, however from other articles I have read about college athtletics almost no sport operates in the black without institutional support.  Also I think SCSU averages bout 6000 fans a home game for 17 dates so having a large portion of their budget towards that sport probably makes sense, but it does seem their other programs get shortchanged.  Good luck going over the numbers.

P.S. These rev/exp reports aren't the gold standard since schools have different reporting methods but it does provide a some ballpark figures.

Thanks, after looking at SCSU and UND, women's hockey is bulldog that has to be fed-meaning the revenue is much less than the expenses required to field this sport.

I guestimate that about 40 to 50 percent of the revenue and expenses is for hockey. To me it looks like this sport could hold some schools from moving forward to D1AA. I will be surprised if UND does move and SCSU, I dont think will go anywhere without a major fund drive of some sort. But who knows.

[HoboD]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

Anyone who has been up to Grand Forks knows that their facilities in almost all respects are some of the best. The Englestad Arena and the "Betty" are state pf the art, their aquatics center has hosted the nationals, their on track facility is better the States, their womens tennis team practices and plays all their matches on 5 indoor courts and their new wellness facility due to open next fall is unbelievable. They have a cash cow in the Engelstad family and are well positioned should they want to go D1.

[RodentiaX]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

I don't think there is too much danger of D-I getting watered down. It's a big hurdle moving from D-II to D-I. It's not much of a hurdle at all to go from NAIA to D-II. Plus, the scholarhip reduction that new D-II schools have been seeking may well come about one of these days.l

I've harped about it before, but the NCAA can save D-II by creating a new division. I would create a division to give teams moving from NAIA to the NCAA a home without watering down D-II, and then I would raise the D-II scholarship limits to from 36 to 40.

So, you would have:

D-IV - Zero scholarships
D-III - 24 Scholarships
D-II - 40 Scholarships
I-AA - 63 scholarships
I-A - 85 scholarships

Some of the D-IV (current D-III) teams would be tempted by the new D-III, and some current D-II teams would be tempted by the new D-III as well. The result would be stronger divisions all around.

This would likely put the NAIA out of business, but the NAIA people could be folded in to run the new D-III.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

I don't think there is too much danger of D-I getting watered down. It's a big hurdle moving from D-II to D-I.  It's not much of a hurdle at all to go from NAIA to D-II. Plus, the scholarhip reduction that new D-II schools have been seeking may well come about one of these days.l

I've harped about it before, but the NCAA can save D-II by creating a new division. I would create a division to give teams moving from NAIA to the NCAA a home without watering down D-II, and then I would raise the D-II scholarship limits to from 36 to 40.

So, you would have:

D-IV - Zero scholarships
D-III - 24 Scholarships
D-II  - 40 Scholarships
I-AA - 63 scholarships
I-A - 85 scholarships

Some of the D-IV (current D-III) teams would be tempted by the new D-III, and some current D-II teams would be tempted by the new D-III as well. The result would be stronger divisions all around.

This would likely put the NAIA out of business, but the NAIA people could be folded in to run the new D-III.

On paper your plan looks good and sounds like a better fit than the current arrangement.

The only problem with it is financing any kind of a playoff scheme in order for the NCAA to award a national championship trophy. Playoffs cost money and more often than not they lose money which has to be made up by host schools and the NCAA. I understand a small portion of the CBS big dandce money is used now to finance D1AA, D2 and D3 playoff short falls. With more division playoffs, this problem gets worse unless you can come up with corporate sponsorships. Most of the deep pockets seem to go with the D1 members as they draw the biggest crowds and have the largest tv audiences. I think D3 and D2 is lucky to get their national game televised.

This is why Roger Thomas's plans will never fly.

[RodentiaX]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

I think something has to be done to fix D-II, and folding the NAIA into the NCAA seems like the best way to do it.

[SD-STATE]

Re: St. Cloud State looking at I-AA?

I wonder if this same debate was around back in the day when UNI, Creighton, Montana schools, and others were still d2 and some even in the NCC. History often repeats itself, after a few more years things will settle down and we'll all probably forget all this talk. People natrually feel uncomfortable with change and do things they normally wouldn't do. UND, St. Cloud for example, ever see someone with a nervous twitch? Same thing.