six universities under one roof

[89rabbit]

Re: six universities under one roof

At the present time I cannot and will not support a 7th full fledged university.  At the same time a lot of what the governor and the legislature do is planning for the future.  I'm not sure how many acres were dedicated to the fine institution that has become SDSU back when it was founded.  

Again according to the SDSU Men's Basketball Media Guide SDSU started as a campus of 80 acres back in 1881 and has grown to 271 acres in 125 years.

Go State! ;D

[ballz]

Re: six universities under one roof

Call me crazy, but I think eventually (next 10-15 years) USDSU will eventually become a full fledged university. It will become DI within 5 years of gaining athletic programs. Athletic facilities would not have to be built, other than a joint effort between the university and city of SF (events center, anyone?). Dorms wouldn't even have to be built. Is it in the state constitution that students must live on campus at all? It will force the closure of DSU and NSU, and possibly USD. It will dramatically affect the future of SDSU, both athletically and academically.

This is a classic political bait and switch. First start by saying it will offer some classes for non-traditional students. Then progress by saying the demand is so great, we need to offer actual degrees. Finally, the demand has grown to unforeseen levels, and other universities are struggling. We have no choice but to make USDSU a full fledged university. Bait-lets offer higher learning in Sioux Falls. Switch-whoops, we have to actually have a university to offer the best educational experience.

All politicians want votes. Without getting too political, look where votes in SD come from. Who controls the most voting power in the Senate and House in Pierre? A Sioux Falls State University would be a windfall for all local politicians except those in the Brookings, Madison, and Aberdeen areas. West River voters wouldn't care too much as there would be no direct economic impact. It would also be a huge boost for the political party in power as Sioux Falls plays the biggest role in state-wide elections.

I think el presidente has it right by saying ”why is there no public plan for USDSU.” What institution does not have a plan? If there is a plan, why isn’t it public knowledge? The absence of a public plan confirms that SD’s politicians and the BOR are not being 100% honest about their intentions.

The main reason many students choose Augie or USF is precisely because it is in Sioux Falls. I think a university in Sioux Falls with a full experience would dramatically effect SDSU’s enrollment. Let’s see, should I attend a university in a small town with limited work opportunities, little entertainment options, and limited career opportunities? Or should I attend a university with the same cost in a city which has unlimited work opportunities, any entertainment I would desire, and unlimited career options?

Great idea for higher learning, bad idea for supporters of other state universities.

Calm down. How exactly would this become D-I in five years? People in Sioux Falls are just going to shell out money for those scholarships because its in sioux Falls AND its a public school? This institution would be starting with no alumni, no sports history, no athletic budget for coaches etc. How exactly are they going to afford playing at the sioux falls facilities. I'm sure its real cheap to rent the arena for a basketball season. Maybe they can use student fees to raise the money, like the ones that SDSU could use to fund the move to D-I? Oh, thats right, the board of regents was opposed to that. If this school got an athletic program it would be no better off than USF or Augie. They would be in NAIA or D-3 for 20 years trying to build up their programs support level and funds. I think 50 years to D-I is more likely.

If this school ever becomes a four year school I'll be very interested to see what majors it offers. I doubt anyone will be able to take majors from either SDSU or USD, since that would in essence be forfetting millions in donations from alums of those schools. If I graduate with a degree in Pharmacy and SDSU stops offering it, I'm going to be donating to the Sioux Falls pharmacy program all of a sudden.

My guess is that rounds wants to set up a research park in the area, and have research facilities to help the sioux falls economy. All of the extra land will be for a research park, that is an extension of SDSU and USD. I believe this is probably the best solution for the whole state.

[el_presidente]

Re: six universities under one roof

Thats very logical. Rounds isn't what worries me. It is the political winds that shift over the next 20 year period. Because of term limits we are looking at a few governors/regental boards. Consequently, the old board may not have supported student fees for D-I but that doesn't mean the "new board" will be against it.

You are right on when it comes to foundation/alumni support.

After working on this project for the last few hours I believe you will see students be proactive in the USDSU issue. We will proactively lobby for the kind of USDSU that supports nontraditional students, research, things of that nature. I feel it is better come out and be involved in the USDSU process to help develop it so that it benefits the regental system.

The counter side would be reactive to defeat the process and I do not think that will work or be in the state's best interest. Still gathering information.....

[SDSUFAN]

Re: six universities under one roof

My guess is that rounds wants to set up a research park in the area, and have research facilities to help the sioux falls economy.  All of the extra land will be for a research park, that is an extension of SDSU and USD.  I believe this is probably the best solution for the whole state.

I dont think so. Rounds has already pledged support for the research park in Brookings with tax dollars that now has land and with the new EE doctrorate approved at the last BOR meeting in Dec, SDSU has a start as it will add additional research faculty immediately according to the Brookings Register article yesterday.

BTW SDSU was the last land grant school to add a doctorate in EE. We got some catching up to do in this area, and its doable.

The research park plans have started on or/near the SDSU campus, west of I-29.  The Brookings Register has reported on a recent meeting with the Brookings County Commission on its plans which both the city and county are behind 100 per cent.


I dont think research has to end at the city limits of Sioux Falls.  There are counties in South Dakota that need people to keep things going. I am not sure every one whats to commute 60 or more miles to Sioux Falls for a good job. Try buying an acreage between Brookings and Sioux Falls, if you are not sitting on about 500k of equity funds that you got from selling a personal residence on the east or west coast. If you want to be buyer of an acreage, you have to leverage yourself considerably to even make an offer on the property. I think the growth in Sioux Falls will help many other areas in South Dakota.

No question Sioux Falls will continue to grow, but typically the fringe counties will also grow and these counties would include Brookings, Lake, and Moody counties.  No offense to Texas Jack Fan, but I wondered if Flandrueau as a once strong family farm commutity would survive, but now I think Flandreau despite being close to the Sioux River has a great chance for growth.

I think we can thank President Miller for being a leader here and pushing for what both the BOR and the Governor want in terms of research and education.  Also Alred Kurtenbach has spent a great deal of time and effort to advance research and the park that is to be located in Brookings.

There once was plans of a joint research park in Sioux Falls, but that apparently did not develope for what ever reasons. I do not have privity to what happen there but SDSU and USD have gone their separate ways on the research park.  The USD medicine seems to have a great partner with Sioux Valley, and it appears to me, the only competition for Sioux Valley in SF, Avera is now kind of cozing up to SDSU and working with SDSU in developing certain types of research that fit SDSU current currlicum.
I believe Avera has an office in the new SDSU Foundation building.  Rounds has no choice but to be supportive whats out there in terms of a research parks as his objective is to increase the total  research dollars that conducted in the South Dakota and its not a matter of where but what.

[filbert]

Re: six universities under one roof

Ranking, from least to most threatened by a future Sioux Falls State:

1. (tie) SDSM&T and BHSU
3. (tie) SDSU and NSU
5. USD
6. DSU

There is no point at all in South Dakota running three state schools within a forty mile radius of Flandreau, for heaven's sake. Actually, there's been no point at all in having a school in Madison for the past thirty years (that's my opinion, deal with it). Any reform of SD public higher education has to include either closure of DSU or transforming it into a junior college or satellite campus of SDSU.

I've previously posted the threat scenario for USD. USD and DSU are the two schools I see as having the highest risk exposure to SFSU.

Northern, BHSU, Tech survive because of geography.

SDSU is a Land-Grant. That's our ace in the hole, and the reason why SDSU would withstand the creation of a SFSU, should it occur in the future. Also, SDSU's pre-emptive move to D-I and current emphasis on enrollment growth both serve to further insulate the university from downside effects.

This is part of why it is SO critical for SDSU alumni and friends to support the school with their voices and their wallets at every opportunity. The bigger SDSU gets, the more assured the school's future will be. (This is also the grand fallacy of Abbott's 'Harvard-on-the-plains' vision for USD . . . smaller is not always better, especially in a relatively resource-poor state like S.D.).

The whole discussion is especially ironic considering that in the early days, Sioux Falls had the choice of the State Penitentiary, or the state agricultural college. They chose the Pen, Brookings got the ag college, and the rest is history.

Another way some of this angst could be diffused would be to administratively put the Sioux Falls campus under the control of an existing university--like the University of Kansas' Edwards Campus in Overland Park (suburban Kansas City).

http://edwardscampus.ku.edu/

Most people will be able to figure out which South Dakota state university (hint hint) I'd favor running the SF campus.

Note that wouldn't mean that other Regential institutions wouldn't offer classes and even award degrees to students at the Sioux Falls campus. Just that it would be tightly and permanently associated with an existing institution, to defend against the emergence of Sioux Falls State U.

One last point--assuming you do designate the SF campus to an existing university--which one? As I previously posted, if you give it to USD, in 30 years it will be the main USD campus, mainly because of the already enormous presence (Med School, etc.) of USD in S.F.

If you give it to SDSU, it will remain a satellite of the main campus in Brookings.

That's another $0.02, possibly even $0.04.

[91rabbit]

Re: six universities under one roof

Speaking as an adopted South Dakotan who visits the state quarterly or so to see grandma (and echoing SDSUFAN's prior post somewhat), one constant theme that I detect in reading the Argus and watching SF news is the already existing inertia at play in the ever-expanding SF metro area. IMO, it behooves the state leadership (governor, legislature, BOR and the whole host of city and county officials, et.al) to see that other areas of the state are offered growth and development opportunities. To wit, making sure that universities like SDSU stay in Brookings. For Brookings to lose SDSU would ensure its sudden demise. While I realize that this may be a bit premature and seemingly alarmist, this development of USDSU in SF could be a great thing for non-trad students. Caution must be exercised to make sure that it doesn't not subsume too many other valuable resources at the expense of outstate SD.

[el_presidente]

Re: six universities under one roof

Ranking, from least to most threatened by a future Sioux Falls State:

1. (tie) SDSM&T and BHSU
3.  (tie) SDSU and NSU
5.  USD
6.  DSU

Actually, SF has a high need for information technology and the kind of programs offered ad DSU. I believe we will see alot of the DSU computer classes (proramming etc) offered at the new USDSU. With geography and enrollment factoring in, DSU main campus would suffer.

[filbert]

Re: six universities under one roof

el_presidente:

I really would encourage you (and have you encourage the BOR and Legislature) to look into KU's Edwards Center down here in suburban Kansas City, as a successful example of exactly the kind of non-traditional degree-granting center that the state should be running in Sioux Falls.

I've become firmly convinced that any attempt to institute a center in Sioux Falls which is not under the administrative control of one of the existing universities will result in Sioux Falls State University (or USD-Sioux Falls), and further that the university which will best resist the pull to migrate the majority of its programs, instructors, budget, and students to Sioux Falls over the years will be SDSU.

This will of course be seen by the other BOR institutions as SDSU empire-building. But I think if all of the parties carefully think through the 30-year implications of a Sioux Falls BOR campus, that is the conclusion that open-minded people will come to.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: six universities under one roof

I think the technology area is the one thing DSU has in its corner.  That alone would probably be enough to save DSU if the state did ever decide to cut universitites, only because they have invested so much time, money, and ideas into making DSU the tech university of SD if not the upper midwest.  However, its geography, and small enrollment do tend to show it has factors working against it.  It is pretty ridiculous that SD has 6 puclic universities, nevermind the fact that four (possibly 5 with USDSU) of them are within 2 hours of Brookings.  If cutting universities would ever happen, i see it working like this:  

1.  SDSM&T and BHSU combine to form one campus on the western half of the state, either in RC or Spearfish.  Most likely Rapid.  

2.  Sadly, NSU closes.  Shrinking enrollments, and the fact they don't offer any specialty to the already saturated SD higher ed system is their demise.  Everything you can get at NSU, you can get at SDSU, USD, DSU, or BH.  However, they don't go down without a fight from the Aberdeen area, I can't imagine losing a university at all.

3.  USD works its way (is given by the regents :) into being the university in Sioux Falls, not on a permanent basis, but the leader of the USDSU campus...god that's scary.

4.  SDSU continues to hold its own in Brookings, doing just fine without the extra support and subsidies from the state leg. the other universities depend on for survival.

I don't think SDSU can turn a nose up to the new developments at USDSU.  A lot, of sioux falls students would love the opportunity to stay in sioux falls and get a degree at a public U.  Obviously it doesn't bring with it the campus, activities, athletics, etc that a normal college experience would bring.  But many students don't realize how important that part of the college experience is until they are 2-3 years into college or finished all together.  Coming out of high school many could worry less about attending an SDSU bball game or joining SA or UPC if they had the opportunity to stay close to family, friends, and the extra stuff the community can offer in Sioux Falls.   It will be very interesting to see what happens - but it is a ways off in the future.  
Just my .02

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: six universities under one roof

One way SDSU can assure that it benefits from the expanded USDSU is to really take advantage of the opportunities there and expand our offerings in Sioux Falls. My department, for example, is looking to do some more there with our graduate program. I think we could add a few undergraduate offerings (for example, we have a general education service course that could very easily be offered there) in Sioux Falls and via the distance learning network as well.

Strategically speaking, SDSU has to continue to be a key participant, and even expand our participation, as USDSU develops so we'll have a voice in what becomes of it.

[filbert]

Re: six universities under one roof

One way SDSU can assure that it benefits from the expanded USDSU is to really take advantage of the opportunities there and expand our offerings in Sioux Falls. My department, for example, is looking to do some more there with our graduate program. I think we could add a few undergraduate offerings (for example, we have a general education service course that could very easily be offered there) in Sioux Falls and via the distance learning network as well.

Strategically speaking, SDSU has to continue to be a key participant, and even expand our participation, as USDSU develops so we'll have a voice in what becomes of it.

Agree wholeheartedly. Where I'm coming around to is that it would actually be in the best interest of other BOR institutions, especially USD and DSU, to ensure that the Sioux Falls campus never becomes a seventh state university. The question is how to do that within the current S.D. political environment.

I think SDSU will be OK regardless, due to the Land-Grant mission.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: six universities under one roof

Sorry, kind of freaked out again with my last post.

Why not just leave SDSU and USD where they are and just move all of DSU to Sioux Falls? SDSU and USD have made huge capital improvements in their buildings and facilities the last 10 years. Why waste all those advancements. DSU offers business, technology, and education degrees, which would be popular for the non-trad students in Sioux Falls. This way, we stay at 6 BOR universities, and no one gets their toes stepped on.

According to their website, DSU has about 2,300 students, up from about 1,400 in 2000. Not as small as many think. DSU's alumni, while small in number, are quite successful (do you know how much IT guys make?). And acedemically they are among the strongest in the BOR system, with average ACT scores consistently in the top 3, I think.

DSU would eventually grow to around 8,000 students and DI status, giving the state 3 prominent universities in the east, including 2 DI schools. The community of Madison would suffer greatly, but better a smaller town like them than a larger town like Brookings. Their campus is the smallest and would make the most sense to move.

Sioux Falls gains a state university, USD maintains its University because it is the only school with med school and law school, and SDSU maintains its school by the unique programs it offers. Everybody wins.

As far as the SF University gaining monetary support, I agree that alumni support would be slow at first, but corporate support would reach levels not seen in South Dakota before.

[ballz]

Re: six universities under one roof

As far as the SF University gaining monetary support, I agree that alumni support would be slow at first, but corporate support would reach levels not seen in South Dakota before.

Why? Coporate support comes from having a large fan base not the other way around. Why would this sioux falls school be anymore likely to get corporate support than Augustana or USF? Being a public school won't generate that much additional interest, especially when they will have to compete against Augie, USF, USD, SDSU who all have a large number of alums in the area to attend their games.

NDSU is in Fargo, and yet they are at about the same level as SDSU. Why would this school all of a sudden become a camelot because its in sioux falls? For some reason a lot of people think that being in Sioux Falls = automatic D-I. Using that logic UNO should be the main university in Nebraska, UMKC should be the main university in the Kansas/ Missouri area. Certainly Kansas, located in Lawerence Kansas can't compete with a school that is located in the Kansas City metro can it? You have to realize that there are a lot more factors than city population that come into play when determining a universities athletic circumstances, and a lot of these factors take A LONG time to build up, as in a lifetime.

[ballz]

Re: six universities under one roof

I also have a question. I have heard that SDSU just wants to maintain its enrollement for the coming years. If these predictions of the Sioux Falls city growing to 300,000 plus another 50,000 in the surronding area by 2040 are factual, shouldn't SDSU be having a surge of students coming in over the next 34 years?

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: six universities under one roof

That growth to 300,000, and the current growth in Sioux Falls has more to do with small towns in SD dying than out-of-staters moving to Sioux Falls. Now, that's a blanket statement, but pretty close if you look at the numbers around the state. I would guess that is why SDSU wouldn't necessarily see a huge increase in students by Sioux Falls growth.