six universities under one roof

[JACKGUYII]

Re: six universities under one roof

The reason Sioux Falls is growing at such a rapid rate is certainly due to instate migration, but the community is also seeing a number of people from other smaller communities in the region ie.Minnesota,Iowa,Nebraska. There also are many people moving to Sioux Falls by either transfers or new job opportunities from many areas of the country. The city is also seeing many immigrants from other countries moving to Sioux Falls. The minority population is exploding with 18% of the school district now minority. I don't think that growth is coming purely from other South Dakota communities.

I don't feel SDSU is getting there fair share of dollars from the state government as compared to USD. We also don't get near the federal grant money that NDSU gets. Peggy Miller has done a good job, but it's time to get someone in with some fresh perspective and energy to take SDSU to the next level. I'm also dissapointed in what SDSU grad Govenor Rounds has done for State since his arrival. Many of the buildings at SDSU are in disrepair and need a major overhaul.  

[filbert]

Re: six universities under one roof

The reason Sioux Falls is growing at such a rapid rate is certainly due to instate migration, but the community is also seeing a number of people from other smaller communities in the region ie.Minnesota,Iowa,Nebraska. There also are many people moving to Sioux Falls by either transfers or new job opportunities from many areas of the country. The city is also seeing many immigrants from other countries moving to Sioux Falls. The minority population is exploding with 18% of the school district now minority. I don't think that growth is coming purely from other South Dakota communities.

I don't feel SDSU is getting there fair share of dollars from the state government as compared to USD. We also don't get near the federal grant money that NDSU gets. Peggy Miller has done a good job, but it's time to get someone in with some fresh perspective and energy to take SDSU to the next level. I'm also dissapointed in what SDSU grad Govenor Rounds has done for State since his arrival. Many of the buildings at SDSU are in disrepair and need a major overhaul.

I think if you did the demographics you'd find that a large portion of Sioux Falls' growth (city and metro area) is in fact people moving to SF from out of state. Certainly the in-state migration from other parts of South Dakota is a major component, too. I don't have any numbers in front of me but wouldn't be surprised if larger numbers of out-of-state people were moving in vs. in-state. After all, there are a lot more people outside of SD than there are in the state.

If I became the new SDSU president (I am, fortunately or not, not in the running :-) ) my primary goals would be to 1) work with the BOR, Governor, and Legislature to increase the amount of state funding, specifically facilities maintenance and faculty/staff salaries, 2) increase the amount of research money coming to the state and SDSU, and 3) continuing to increase total headcount and FTE enrollment.

I think that Rounds has done what he can as Governor, but in my opinion there's a general anti-higher-education current to South Dakota politics that doesn't seem to be there in North Dakota, for instance. That's a hard current to try to swim against.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: six universities under one roof

NDSU is in Fargo, and yet they are at about the same level as SDSU.  Why would this school all of a sudden become a camelot because its in sioux falls?  For some reason a lot of people think that being in Sioux Falls = automatic D-I.  Using that logic UNO should be the main university in Nebraska, UMKC should be the main university in the Kansas/ Missouri area.  Certainly Kansas, located in Lawerence Kansas can't compete with a school that is located in the Kansas City metro can it?  You have to realize that there are a lot more factors than city population that come into play when determining a universities athletic circumstances, and a lot of these factors take A LONG time to build up, as in a lifetime.

Not taking issue with anything you said in your post, in fact I fully agree. I think after living in Nebraska for 20 years, its comical to even suggest that UNO would be the leading university in the state of Nebraska.  During my student days in the mid sixties SDSU mostly competed with UNO in baseball, and at the time they were known as Omaha U Indians, and were a municpal university. Apparently somewhere along the way, the City of Omaha decided they could no longer support a municpal  institution. I dont recall the exact details but somewhere in the 1970's the Nebraska unicameral passed legistlation for the state to take over U of Omaha and since that time they have been known as U of Nebraska Omaha. In the twenty years I have lived in Nebraska, the Board of Regents, publically elected, not appointed, nearly cut all the UNO athletics on two occasions. Being in a metro area they are as many are aware of a commuter institution and they do a very good job in many areas with evening classes. They seem to have some very good international studies programs that from time to time get recognition.

So I think it would take some very heavy influence from the Sioux Falls legislators to make what I jokely named earlier, Sioux Falls State University to become a reality. There are too many votes in both houses of the legistlature that are there to protect communities like Spearfish, Aberdeen and Madison. So closing these institutions is not going to be an easy task in the next 20 years even if they have arguements to do so are valid.

How Janklow closed Southern in Springfield is beyond me, but I sure there are many who remember this. I think Springfield being a very small community a distance from Yankton hurt their ability to defend keeping Southern. They may have had only a handful of legistlators that tried to keep Southern. They did not seem to be able to fight off a very powerful governor.

I still think its kind of ironic that Governor Janklow came close to occupying one of the cells that he created because he thought South Dakota had too many state assisted institutions.

I think all the current institutions have an opportunity to gain from USDSU and maybe its not such a bad idea. Another thought is the real estate costs in SF, which are going to continue to increase as more alternative uses for available property become available and seek to purchase. Maybe the current transaction is a big bargin which will be more recognizable 20 years from now.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: six universities under one roof

If the Sioux Falls Metro area does become over 50% of the population of the state than don't underestimate the influence and power the Sioux Falls area legislators will yield in the coming years. It's already happening and the ability of rural and small town legislators ability to get together and fight the Sioux Falls influence is diminishing.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: six universities under one roof

I think the Argus or somebody had a story a while back with these predictions saying that 80% of the state's population would be within 10 miles of the interstates by the year 2020?. Small town SD is in for a hurtin', unfortunately.

I'm probably off on the exact details, but I agree with JackguyII, that Sioux Falls power and influence will only grow as the states demographics change. Sioux Falls is also key in statewide elections, so future governors will pay special attention to the idea of a state U in Sioux Falls.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: six universities under one roof

I also have a question.  I have heard that SDSU just wants to maintain its enrollement for the coming years.  If these predictions of the Sioux Falls city growing to 300,000 plus another 50,000 in the surronding area by 2040 are factual, shouldn't SDSU be having a surge of students coming in over the next 34 years?

We have just moved through a bubble of high school aged students nationwide and are beginning a downward swing. Sioux Falls may be growing, but nationally the growth in the college-aged population is slowing and maintaining student numbers or growing slightly during the next few years would be considered pretty good performance. I think we'll probably stay in the 11,000s for a few years. Nobody is sure what will happen. I think we'll grow some in coming years, but not like we did in the last ten.

That said, minority student populations continue to grow. If the university can aggressively recruit minority students, we can still grow. But that is the only place where we can find "new" students. It would also be good educational policy to aggressively recruit minority students since SDSU is so overwhelmingly white and interacting with a diverse group of people is a key part of the educational experience.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: six universities under one roof

If the Sioux Falls Metro area does become over 50% of the population of the state than don't underestimate the influence and power the Sioux Falls area legislators will yield in the coming years. It's already happening and the ability of rural and small town legislators ability to get together and fight the Sioux Falls influence is diminishing.

I do recall from the Argus article about the potential growth of Sioux Falls reaching 400,000. The projection is speaking of year 2040, which is 34 years from now. Thats a long time from the present and I doubt I will be around as I would be 98. None the less, the past 30 years of Sioux Falls growth is without question the result of declining family farms and population and also, small town businesses. This factor is near reaching its point of diminishing returns. There are no more to move on to SF in other words.

Immigration seems to be an issue that neither major party can deal with. Also those who put their heart and soul in the belief of free market have a double edge sword since, there are people in the western hemsphire who want to work at low paying jobs and the jobs are available. The existing population wants no part of these low paying jobs, but yet resents illegal immigration that makes filling those jobs possible. Its a real double edge sword, which up till now has not affected SD too much. This too is changing and to quote Alum guy" and so it goes.

I dont think we can assume the current non-Sioux Falls population of South Dakota are all going to pack up and move to Sioux Falls in order to please some demographic expert NOR JACKGUY II for that matter.

This projection is just that. It could fall short of that projected. Incoming industries, may find the land values and space  available too expensive in Sioux Falls and may choose to relocate somewhere else in the state.

I dont see economic development being an exclusive Sioux Falls achievement. It can happen in other parts of the state too.  With the no state income tax, businesses dont have to relocate to Sioux Falls just to take advantage of that feature.

About two years ago, based on a article in the Fargo Forum, a legislator from Minot ND, offered his email at the end of the article as he was about to introduce a bill to repeal the state income tax in North Dakota.  He sited the sucess of South Dakota in being able to attract new business based on the absence of this tax. I did not agree with this legislator at the time, but after exchanging a few emails, I began to see his point. This feature may help South Dakota, but Sioux Falls does not have the monopoly on things that are state statute and could benefit other parts of the state.

Real estate costs can have good and bad affects on growth. Some in Sioux Falls when they reach 400,000 will perhaps wish for the much simplier past. These real estate  costs are a factor that is going to make individuals and businesses look elsewhere to do business, specially away from Sioux Falls where land and housing are cheaper.

The point the Sioux Falls Legislators need to remember is that a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. Right now they have increased their power, but there are ways for other interests to defeat them or slow them down. The political process even in the South Dakota Legislature is complicated and its never one dominate force that prevails.

[Jacks99]

Re: six universities under one roof

I would agree with that point!


It does seem like a lot of land, but in SF you have to get it all now. No reason to be in the shoes of UNO in 25 years. Besides, if these are all commuters, you will need a lot more parking lot space than at SDSU.

Overall it's good news and if it turns into a SFSU, I hope it's for the best of SD.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: six universities under one roof

I'm not claiming to be a demographic expert but as a business owner who comes in contact with new families moving into the area I have a little more of an understanding of where people are coming from than someone who has lived in Columbus Nebraska for several years. Certainly plenty of instate migration to the state's largest city, but many people are moving here from large communities for the first time and many are moving back to the state and pleased that Sioux Falls offers many of the big city amenities they enjoyed in their previous residence.

[JackTwice]

Re: six universities under one roof

el presidente -

I have one question. Have you asked the powers that be why they need such a large area of land? It would seem to me that if the plan is to have parking and a few buildings why would they need the equivalent area to the main campus of SDSU?

[ballz]

Re: six universities under one roof

I saw a report today that stated several interesting things:

1. Funding for a third building, one in addition to the two that have already been publicly discussed has been obtained, for an additional 8 million dollars.

2. The plan has been developed by only two of the regents, which is contrary to normal policy. One of the regents was Jewet of aberdeen, another was from sioux falls.

3. The banking major that is being started at Northern was only available to Northern under the condition that they also offer it at USDSU in Sioux Falls.

4. As has been stated in this thread, there has been no public discussion of the plan by the regents, which is unusual for the BOR and Govenor.

This is from a newspaper article, but there is no internet link. All of this leads me to believe that:

1. One of the universities is getting the ax.

2. There will be a public 4 year university in Sioux Falls.

The question I have will be what the majors offered at this school will be. My guess is that it will be a combination of whatever is offered at the school that gets shut down, plus a few others that aren't offered anywhere yet. The BOR has really limited this new school by the no duplication clause they have instituted in SD.

If I had to guess which university was on the chopping block it would have to be either DSU or Northern. Their both about the same size, except Northern doesn't really offer anything that you can't get at another school, does it? It would probably be tougher to get rid of Northern with the aberdeen area though. At any rate, I'm sure nothing will be closed until after the govenors election coming up.

[HoboD]

Re: six universities under one roof

Anyone who thinks and more astoundingly states publically that they think there is a plan to close one of the exisiting state universities is just plane ignorant or maybe worse. There is NO plan to close any of the existing schools not with the BOR, not with the Governor, not with any credible legislator. Thats just nonsense.

Springfield was closed because it didnt have a defineable mission. It was a tech school before tech schools existed. As the tech schools developed the need for Springfield was diminished. Each of the remaining schools is on solid ground.

DSU through forward thinking has remade itself into a school focused on computer technology. Its mission is strong. NSU is solid because of the geography it serves and it to has focused its attention on becoming a leader in online education. Do you have a clue about how many high schools depend on NSU for long distance learning?

Black Hills is solid because of its location. It is a growing institution drawing students from west river who arent interested in engineering at Tech and a big number from Wyoming. Closing tech, state or the u is not worth discussing.

As for SFSU down the road.........a long way down the road......eventually it will be seriously proposed. The first clue will be when someone proposes that the tuition rate be the same as the U's. Currently they pay a higher rate for what are essentially extension courses.
If that happens a big incentive to go to one of the state universities will be lost and a full degree granting SFSU (and football team) will be on the horizon.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: six universities under one roof

Anyone who thinks and more astoundingly states publically that they think there is a plan to close one of the exisiting state universities is just plane ignorant or maybe worse.  There is NO plan to close any of the existing schools not with the BOR, not with the Governor, not with any credible legislator.  Thats just nonsense.  

Springfield was closed because it didnt have a defineable mission.  It was a tech school before tech schools existed.  As the tech schools developed the need for Springfield was diminished.  Each of the remaining schools is on solid ground.  

DSU through forward thinking has remade itself into a school focused on computer technology.  Its mission is strong.  NSU is solid because of the geography it serves and it to has focused its attention on becoming a leader in online education.  Do you have a clue about how many high schools depend on NSU for long distance learning?  

Black Hills is solid because of its location.  It is a growing institution drawing students from west river who arent interested in engineering at Tech and a big number from Wyoming.  Closing tech, state or the u is not worth discussing.  

As for SFSU down the road.........a long way down the road......eventually it will be seriously proposed.  The first clue will be when someone proposes that the tuition rate be the same as the U's.  Currently they pay a higher rate for what are essentially extension courses.
If that happens a big incentive to go to one of the state universities will be lost and a full degree granting SFSU (and football team) will be on the horizon.

A student pays about $40 more/credit at USDSU than SDSU. A full time student would see about a $600/semester difference in tuition and fees. However, it doesn't take into effect room and board, etc. that lets say a Sioux Falls or Harrisburg student must pay to attend SDSU. That amount would be right around 4000 per year. Plus travel, other living expenses etc. Assuming a sioux falls student is living at home and attending USDSU...

$600 v. $4000

I would say there may be incentive enough for Sioux Falls area students right now.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: six universities under one roof

I agree with many of the points made by HoboD. The question I have is are kids today really interested in the traditional college campus experience so many of us on this board enjoyed?

[SDSUFAN]

Re: six universities under one roof

I'm not claiming to be a demographic expert but as a  business owner who comes in contact with new families moving into the area I have a little more of an understanding of where people are coming from than someone who has lived in Columbus Nebraska for several years. Certainly plenty of instate migration to the state's largest city, but many people are moving here from large communities for the first time and many are moving back to the state and pleased that Sioux Falls offers many of the big city amenities they enjoyed in their previous residence.  

So you know more than me about Sioux Falls, fine. You probably do have a good feel for the current situation. I will give you that credit, but if you buy all the projections hook, line and sinker fine too * * * *. I will be 99 when the 2040 census are counted, and they just may not include me among the living. That does not bother me either. I just dont agree with these rosy projections for Sioux Falls. Mainly because this kind of growth will affect real estate values considerably and it may have already changed some things based on the BOR move to get the current property for USDSU, which is a ways from downtown SF and what does that tell you? Property north of SF is going higher and higher.
They are not going down but up and up.

I would caution you to not be so biased about how the whole state is revolving around Sioux Falls. I dont think it does and other parts of the state have a great chance for growth. Thats my point.
Good luck with your business whatever that may be.
I also agree with HoboD. None of the existing schools are on the chopping block and even if that day comes, they will not go down without a fight. Thanks too for the comments about Southern. It was a mind jogger.


*From the Moderator

edited for political content