Mid-Con Ivite speculation

[valpotx]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

Youngstown State left in 2001 for the Horizon. I wouldn't hold out for the Missouri Valley happening in the next decade. They are a pretty stable conference, and with their recent success, not many schools will be leaving.

[jackphd]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

[quote author=filbert link=1156964110/75#78 date=1157118790]I'm no fan of the journalism trade in general, but I don't see a big problem with Stu's article. He touches on some points which are indisputable:

1) SDSU (specifically, the SDSU men's basketball program) has experienced two very difficult years in the transition to D-I.

2) The Mid-Con has been a weak men's basketball conference, which is the only sport a causal fan/sports writer will know about.

3) The Mid-Con's membership roster has not exactly been a model of stability over its 25-year history.

The conference is quite respectable in baseball and women's basketball, but that would have required either some research or some previous knowledge of the conference in the past year. Solari probably would have known this. You can easily argue that when the Argus sent Whitney to cover this story, he should have known about Oral Roberts' nice run in the baseball playoffs (barely missing the trip to Omaha), or the middle-of-the-pack women's basketball RPI of the conference before he walked into Volstorff. But so what?--woulda, shoulda, coulda.

We're in the Mid-Continent Conference. Enjoy it.

Would it be acceptable for STU (pid?) to report the following on a wedding?

1) The bride has experienced two very difficult years since she divorced her former husband.

2) The groom works for a business that has struggled to gain market share the last 25 years.

3) The groom has been married several times.

There is a time for hard cold facts. There is time for warmest congratulations. Stu (pid?) obviously can not distinguish between the two.

[/quote]


Not a good analogy. There is no comparing a private wedding ceremony with a taxpayer-supported public university. There is no time for "warmest congratulations" in journalism. As I have said again and again, that's not their job. Perhaps you would enjoy a state-run media system where you wouldn't find icky, negative stories. North Korea would be a good choice for that.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

He began with the long and troubled comment for SDSU's transition

Exactly. That's about the only comment in the article that really gave me heartburn. Flat out BS. Stuie should check out Texas Pan-Am; now that's long and troubled. We're simply in transition, a transition that by most accounts is going better that we could have hoped.

[JackJD]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

I have an observation on the Argus writer and then I'm returning to the celebration going on in my head:  WE'RE IN THE MID-CON!!!!

I have a journalism degree from SDSU and a law degree from USD.  (Boy, can I pick 'em!  Two professions that continually come under attack!)

I think jackphd is correct to point out that the analogy jbnjbq presents is false.  (There are days I think analogies should be made illegal.  We're much better off just sticking with the facts at hand and the conclusions that can be reached from those facts...no need to further confuse the issue with often unfair comparisons.)

A good journalist knows that from time to time his writings will provoke a strong emotional response.  JBNJBQ is perfectly within his rights to blast the writer.  Many writers get a kick out of that!  They want to cause their readers to think critically.

And, it's very appropriate for jackphd to point out what is wrong with JBNJBQ's charges against Stu Whitney.

A good journalist does not simply write the story WE want.  He has to present newsworthy facts as objectively as he can and in an interesting manner (so that people read it).  Unfortunately, the very parts of the story that made me cringe -- those parts pointed out by JBNJBQ -- are basically accurate.  Many Argus readers do not follow sports as closely as those who post on this message board.  There are some readers who do not know about the changes that have occurred in the Mid-Con over the years.

I hope that when a spirited debate breaks out on this message board, no one gets in a huff and stomps off.  (I think we've lost several posters that way.)

How about this angle:  Whitney's writing preserves the way the Mid-Con has been up until yesterday.  It will serve as a marker in time from which we can compare the Mid-Con (or the conference with a new name that will be announced sometime in the next year) of the future with NDSU and SDSU as leaders.  The Mid-Con has to be as delighted to have the Bison and the Jacks in the fold as we are to be in a conference.  Its the right conference for us and as we progress, it will grow and progress with us.  

I think I'll keep Whitney's article in a folder and refer back to it in a few years while I'm watching the 'Rabbits in their opening game of their first Big Dance.

WE'RE IN A CONFERENCE!

[RodentiaX1]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

[quote author=1stRowFANatic link=1156964110/75#89 date=1157136080]He began with the long and troubled comment for SDSU's transition

Exactly. That's about the only comment in the article that really gave me heartburn. Flat out BS. Stuie should check out Texas Pan-Am; now that's long and troubled. We're simply in transition, a transition that by most accounts is going better that we could have hoped.[/quote]

What people who want to be dismissive of the move to D-I fail to do is to state what they think are reasonable expectations of a move to D-I. Being in a conference at this stage in the transition is not a long time. A nine-win men's basketball season isn't much fun, but it is about what is expected from a team in transition.

[filbert]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

I've put together a quick -n- dirty survey of media coverage of the SDSU announcement over on the SDSUFans.com blog. (Click on the link)

SDSU fans, interested observers, media critics, Whitney haters, or even folks with journalism or law degrees ( . . . sorry, couldn't resist! I've collected engineering, geography, and MBA degrees personally so I really shouldn't throw stones ;D ) or any combination of the above can read all the articles and discuss to their heart's content here on the Forum.

Enjoy (in moderation)!

[JackJD]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

Filbert: A rigid (everything is black and white -- engineer) bean counter (MBA) wandering aimlessly around the globe (geography).

Thanks for putting together the media coverage...that'll make good reading.

Let the critics keep taking their shots. The D-1 transition is turning out just fine. I recently talked to one of the more coarse critics of Dr. Oien and he begrudgingly admitted SDSU's leadership is looking just fine right now.

[filbert]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

Filbert: A rigid (everything is black and white -- engineer) bean counter (MBA) wandering aimlessly around the globe (geography).

Thanks for putting together the media coverage...that'll make good reading.

Let the critics keep taking their shots. The D-1 transition is turning out just fine. I recently talked to one of the more coarse critics of Dr. Oien and he begrudgingly admitted SDSU's leadership is looking just fine right now.

Ah. You DO know me, then.

[Haldersham]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

[quote author=Rabbitden link=1156964110/75#77 date=1157117513]Bluehat, Is a new Bishop in SF big news? :-? YES, YES. YES...the Bishop in Sioux Falls is BIG NEWS.  The SF Diocese has been waiting for a leader for a long time and I am very confident that the Bishop affects a lot more people than the Jacks on this side of the state.

No offense, still love the Jacks but cant agree with you on this one.

Den Out!

Yes the Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese for South Dakota is always news. He is headquartered in Sioux Falls.  I think the Argus had a hard choice as both front page articles needed pictures to be complete. Unfortuately, SDSU pictures were on page 5a, but at least the story made the front page. As much as I hate to admit it, the Argus has been in Sioux Falls for a long time and should cover all the important happenings locally. Granted SDSU is the largest state assisted school and any thing big that happens there should be news, too. So it was probably the kind of news day the Argus would like to see happen every day.  I think the Bishop is important as a spirtual leader of the community. Its interesting that an evengelical Protestant event the LifeLight festival also made front page news. They got one picture, SDSU, got none.  I will not be attending LifeLight, but others will so maybe they deserve a photo and frontage coverage.

Doggone it, a Lutheran should not be admiting that  this  Roman Catholic leader is s important. :[/quote]

I just wanted to quote my own post here as I apparently gave the wrong impression namely, an anti-SDSU attitude at the Argus. What I was saying was the Argus had in my opinion a very good news day yesterday with new bishop, SDSU conference news and the LifeLight fest coming up this weekend. I did not intend to imply an anti-SDSU attitude but I did. Since one of the stories was about the Roman Catholic church and the LifeLight being a predominant evengelical protestant event, there was balance in that choice, but SDSU not getting a picture is more the result of the choices of our SDSU alums in the various positions at Argus. I assume this was an objective choice. They made very professional choices and my post was not intented to be knock towards them or their choices. They know how to sell newspapers and know the interests of their readers.  I edited my question  out so readers  will not be distracted by the rehotroical question that was in the orginal post.

I agree with JackJD comments, particularily we should be celebrating and not analyzing to death Mr. Whitney's article line for line. He wrote what he thought he saw at the press conference and its done and over with. How can we improve the RPI of the Mid Con? That's what is probably on Coach Nagy's mind right now. Valpx made a good point about Chicago State and the other school pulling the RPI down. So maybe the RPI will go up just with the new schools being admitted to the Mid Con. I too was listening to Craig and Mike. AJ told them that the conference RPI for women's BB was 17th.

I think one person and sport being over looked here in the celebration is Brad Erickson and the swimming and diving teams who did very well at the Mid Con Swimming meet last spring since they were associate members of the Mid Con. This was a big opportunity to show the rest of the conference what we can do. Brad had his people ready and they performed very well and took home some medals.

I think the more minor sports such as swimming are indeed benefiting from the move to D1. I believe we will have maybe 9 scholarships when fully funded. Before and at the D2 level, I think Coach Erickson had few choices since there was no more than one or two scholarships, plus no high schools swimming programs in the state so getting walk on's was even difficult. Last weekend while getting ice cream in the Union, a conversation started with a family from Kansas City who had brought their daughter to SDSU. I was told she was majoring in pharmacy and was going to be on the swimming team. I got the feeling this young lady was a very bright and deligent student. They also commented on the low cost of an SDSU education. No doubt a number of good things are about to start.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

Youngstown State left in 2001 for the Horizon.  I wouldn't hold out for the Missouri Valley happening in the next decade.  They are a pretty stable conference, and with their recent success, not many schools will be leaving.

I forgot about Youngstown, so there are 2 schools in the past 8 or nine years. My mistake. As for the Mo Valley, I used that only as an example of a more highly regarded conference and the time frame roughly based on the last big changes in the Mid-Con.

[JBNJBQ]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

There is no time for "warmest congratulations" in journalism.

That is what is wrong with your profession. Too many of your contemporaries have lost the human touch that people crave.

As I have said again and again, that's not their job.

You have said many times what their job is not. I would like to hear what you think their job is.

Perhaps you would enjoy a state-run media system where you wouldn't find icky, negative stories. North Korea would be a good choice for that.

As I recall you were the one who "wasn't sure" you wanted that kind of press. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

JBNJBQ

[SoDak]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

With all due respect to the journalists, and those who teach them, I still say Whitney has absolutely no idea where the line is between his opinion and fact, and just plain smarminess. Is he supposed to be a cheerleader for State? No. Is he necessarily supposed to walk out of bounds to rain on the parade the day they announce? I say heck no. I haven't looked at the Fargo Forum article announcing this for NDSU, but I'd be willing to wager they didn't spend as much time as they thought they could get away with telling us how poor the Mid-Con was. Are they not good journalists? Do reporters report, or do they make the story? It's not hard to tell what Whitney's opinion is from his article. Then again, this is cours de rigeur for the Argus in general, so I'm not surprised.

So, I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[jackmd]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

With all due respect to the journalists, and those who teach them, I still say Whitney has absolutely no idea where the line is between his opinion and fact, and just plain smarminess.  Is he supposed to be a cheerleader for State?  No.  Is he necessarily supposed to walk out of bounds to rain on the parade the day they announce? I say heck no.  I haven't looked at the Fargo Forum article announcing this for NDSU, but I'd be willing to wager they didn't spend as much time as they thought they could get away with telling us how poor the Mid-Con was.  Are they not good journalists?  Do reporters report, or do they make the story?  It's not hard to tell what Whitney's opinion is from his article.  Then again, this is cours de rigeur for the Argus in general, so I'm not surprised.

So, I guess we'll agree to disagree.  

I think I share this sentiment. Matt Zimmer often has a flavor to his take on the Twins that stinks of Whitney's influence. Stu seems to be trying to polish his journalistic integrity by being a bit controversial. I'm not asking for a Sid Hartman homer at the Argus but they do need someone better than Whitney, Garry, and Zimmer, at least when it comes to local DI athletics. Don't care who you are, DI athletics with a conference affiliation is HUGE for the state of South Dakota, HUGE. Whitney's article didn't come across as understanding that and I'm not sure he does. That, to me, is a scary thought.

[Haldersham]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

I am not going to pile on Stu Whitney, although I can not argue with most of the comments toward him. I bet he enjoys reading this thread and probably has a smile on his face. If he indeed respects SDSU, he has not shown it publically in his writings. This is all I am going to say.

I think we need to continue supporting our Jacks like never before. We are going to make an impact on the Mid Con. When you consider all the issues at Chicago State, its no surprise that the Mid Con presidents were unaninimous on all three new members. We have the commitment on campus to be a good D1 member and Mid Con conference member. To me that is all that counts. Let Mr. Whitney use is ink any way he wants. We can't stop the press, unless we change the US Constitution and that would be more than what we bargined for.

[jackmd]

Re: Mid-Con Ivite speculation

I am not going to pile on Stu Whitney, although I can not argue with most of the comments toward him. I bet he enjoys reading this thread and probably has a smile on his face. If he indeed respects SDSU, he has not shown it publically in his writings. This all I am going to say.

I think we need to continue supporting our Jacks like never before. We are going to make an impact on the Mid Con. When you consider all the issues at Chicago State, its no surprise that the Mid Con presidents were unaninimous on all three new members. We have the commitment on campus to be a good D1 member and Mid Con conference member. To me that is all that counts. Let Mr. Whitney use is ink any way he wants. We can't stop the press, unless we change the US Constitution and that would be more than what we bargined for.

Agreed, my post kind of sounds like whining, not what it is at all.  SDSU, the Mid-Con, and DI are a lot bigger than the Argus and won't be affected one bit by what Whitney or anyone else writes.  Good, bad or ugly the print really doesn't matter here.  DI is not a popularity contest, its reality.  Thing are going great and should continue to.  Its all just frosting from here.