women need improvement?

[jackdaniel]

Today's Argus article on women's team improvement regarding blazing fast& quick gaurds has got me thinking, do we expect too much from this program in terms of recruiting?Yes & No.If you look at the odds of SDSU getting the top rated recruiting class in the nation...well they wouldn't be that great.That's why there's such a desparity in the top (UConn) & the bottom of the 3oo &some womens Div 1 teams.All the top 100 hoop girls (rated) players choose the most prestigious women,s basketball programs to get media hype,or some other form of compensation we can't provide,such as particular degree programs & such.I just want to say that i think AJ and the coaching staff do a fantastic job of recruiting in my opinion and the caliber of players we get ,in the relatively small geographical area we recruit in.Building a strong program takes time ,especially going from Div2 to Div 1 basketball.I,m really proud of all we've accomplished so far,& the future looks bright.We're continually moving in the right direction ,it just takes time.

[SoDakJack]

Re: women need improvement?

Today's Argus article on women's team improvement regarding blazing fast& quick gaurds has got me thinking, do we expect too much from this program in terms of recruiting?Yes & No.If you look at the odds of SDSU getting the top rated recruiting class in the nation...well they wouldn't be that great.That's why there's such a desparity in the top (UConn) & the bottom of the 3oo &some womens Div 1 teams.All the top 100 hoop girls (rated) players choose the most prestigious women,s basketball programs to get media hype,or some other form of compensation we can't provide,such as particular degree programs & such.I just want to say that i think AJ and the coaching staff do a fantastic job of recruiting in my opinion and the caliber of players we get ,in the relatively small geographical area we recruit in.Building a strong program takes time ,especially going from Div2 to Div 1 basketball.I,m really proud of all we've accomplished so far,& the future looks bright.We're continually moving in the right direction ,it just takes time.

I kind of wonder if the second half of the OU game isn't a precursor to next year. Could AJ and the coaching staff be contemplating using multiple defenses? I think that with our ladies' length, a mixture of zone and 1-on-1 defenses could be very deadly.

That being said, with the struggles that we are seeing in the "major" WBB programs in the area, I think that SDSU is becoming more and more attractive to the upper midwest. A couple more years and we could be seeing the best players in the area coming here instead of being courted by other programs.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: women need improvement?

The Women have set such a high bar for theselves with their early success that it's difficult to exceed what they have already accomplished. I think they can continue to win Summit League Championships with their current formula and thus qualify for the tournament, however if they aspire to be more and make a move in the tournament they will have to go outside their current recruiting model and that may come with other issues ie. transfers which seem to happen more when your bringing in recruits farther from their home base and players who may not be as committed to the classroom as we currently have. Do we need to reshirt more players to allow them to mature another year. How about Juco players? As we experienced last year we must play and win a tough non-conference schedule or even if we win the Summit we end up with a difficult draw in the first round of the tournament. Consistently getting to the tournament will help us in the recruiting war. I think if we can go toe to toe with the University of Minnesota than we have a chance to be very good as their are a lot of DI players in Minnesota and only one DI school. Wisconsin continues to get great players out of Minnesota.

[zooropa]

Re: women need improvement?

One of the problems with WBB at the highest levels, is that there aren't as many premier WBB programs as there are premier MBB programs, so you get talent concentration at certain institutions. It is tough to imagine that a MBB program would have the equivalent of Tina Charles AND Maya Moore at the same time.

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However, as it relates to the Jacks, I think the question is one of improved strategy, along with steadily improving recruits.

Perhaps the second half of the Sooner game taught AJ that the zone has its uses. I certainly think that it should be brought out in games against ORU next season--especially since Allison & Macie really did a good job trapping out of it.

I think it's easy to stuff a bunch of assorted characteristics under the rubric 'athleticism' and then lament the difficulty of facing a good 'athlete.'

But consider, for instance, Abi Olajuwon:

Here's a player who lost 30 pounds over the off season, I would argue that her biggest advantage is weight, and second to that is height. Now I ask you, are those -athletic- advantages? Was Julia Whitted better, athletically, than Maria Boever? No. Was Abi Olajuwon a better athlete than Maria? I would say no. She was bigger, that's all.

Would a player like Abi be a good fit in AJ's system? I don't think so. Again, I reference the need to lose 30 pounds to get into playing shape, and her inability/unwillingness to develop her off-hand game.

(not knocking Sherri Coale's system, as it works for her, obviously, but not every player is a right fit for every coach)

And what about Danielle Robinson?

Here, I think the question of 'athletic ability' should be broken down a bit: what made her play more 'athletic' than, say, Macie or Allison?

I'd argue that the difference was more -mental- than anything else. Does she have a great first step? Yes. But that's not a question of athletic ability, so much as it is a question of being able to see and predict where a play is headed--or where she can get into the lane--coupled with the ability to commit to that quickly. D-Rob is decisive, not necessarily a track star.

Frankly, I don't know how much of that can be coached, and how much of that is innate.

But I do think that we, as Jacks fans, tend to look at where the team gets beat, and say, "well, they're better athletically", without stopping to ask what we mean by that.

I think, also, we tend to assume that athletic advantages can't be overcome by strategic means (e.g. presenting a variety of looks on defense).

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: women need improvement?

But consider, for instance, Abi Olajuwon:

Here's a player who lost 30 pounds over the off season, I would argue that her biggest advantage is weight, and second to that is height. Now I ask you, are those -athletic- advantages? Was Julia Whitted better, athletically, than Maria Boever? No. Was Abi Olajuwon a better athlete than Maria? I would say no. She was bigger, that's all.

Would a player like Abi be a good fit in AJ's system? I don't think so. Again, I reference the need to lose 30 pounds to get into playing shape, and her inability/unwillingness to develop her off-hand game.

I would find it hard to believe that SDSU would be turning down BigXII caliber players because they "don't fit the system." We shouldn't be, anyways, in my opinion.

I think, also, we tend to assume that athletic advantages can't be overcome by strategic means (e.g. presenting a variety of looks on defense).

Athletic advantages can be overcome with strategic means (example: UNI defeating Kansas), but an athletic team can also use different strategic means to take advantage of their athleticism. Going back to Kansas-UNI, Kansas let UNI dictate the pace for most of the game until the end when they started pressing and flustered UNI. I do agree that strategy can be used, but when you have a team that is more talented and just as well coached, more than likely the more talented/athletic team will win.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: women need improvement?

Its hard to say they need to improve when they were the first team EVER to make it to the NCAA Tournament in their first two years of eligibility after transition. Its just a natural progression. What do we have to do to get over the hump and get the W against the Baylors and Oklahomas of the world.

I thought TV did a nice job with the article. It even pointed out that Robinson is up for four national awards. It is fair to say that we struggled with teams with great team speed particularly at the guard position. ORU and Okalhoma fit that bill. Our team has overcome a lot of physical shortcomings by their mindset to not get beat by effort and being well coached. OU's coach addressed that very fact.

New wrinkles in offense and defense, continually upgrading talent from one class to the next, and good old fashioned hard work are what it takes. There were a number of quotes leading up to the tournament in Sioux Falls that addressed the fact that they didn't work as hard the first part of the season because they thought they were good enough. They turned it around and had a great finish to the year.

My expectation is that AJ will have these ladies focusing on the little things that make the difference in the off-season and the team will be back next year with even more fire and determination. A desire to reassert themselves as THE team in the Summitt League. Boever, Cornemann, and Anderson willbe tough to replace but so were Pater, Schlagel, Seeler, Vogel, and Warkenthien. Its part of the deal!

Its going to be a fun ride again next year!

GB, GB, GJ!

SUPERBUNNY

[zooropa]

Re: women need improvement?

I would find it hard to believe that SDSU would be turning down BigXII caliber players because they "don't fit the system." We shouldn't be, anyways, in my opinion.

But -is- Abi Olajuwon a 'Big Twelve caliber player'? She was basically brought in to spell the Paris sisters who -were- Big Twelve caliber.

when you have a team that is more talented and just as well coached, more than likely the more talented/athletic team will win.

Yeah, but there are so many other factors that come into play.

All other things being equal, yes, basketball talent carries the day, but all other things are never equal.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: women need improvement?

But -is- Abi Olajuwon a 'Big Twelve caliber player'? She was basically brought in to spell the Paris sisters who -were- Big Twelve caliber.

Yeah, but there are so many other factors that come into play.

All other things being equal, yes, basketball talent carries the day, but all other things are never equal.

All I know is Olajuwon is something we didn't have an answer for during most of the game.

Of course other things come into play. Otherwise, why play the game? I'm sorry to hash on you a little bit zooropa but there was a significant difference athleticly between the two teams. That's just a fact and it was hard to miss. That being said, I thought we used our strengths well and so did OU.

The question at hand is what if anything do they need to do to improve and move up another level? There are always things that can be done to improve.

SUPERBUNNY

[zooropa]

Re: women need improvement?

Athere was a significant difference athleticly between the two teams

Define it. Describe it.

I'm not saying there wasn't a difference, there obviously was. I'm saying that it's not helpful to describe the difference as 'athletic' as though that were sufficient.

And I don't think the Jacks did a good enough job pushing Abi. I think the Jacks had a definite 'athletic' advantage in the post through superior conditioning. I think they could have wore out Abi by keeping her moving on defense (drawing her out to the wings, for instance), and pushing the transition game. Fortunately for her, the Sooner guards did a pretty good job slowing play down until she could get into position at -her- speed, not a speed dictated by Boever/Sunnarborg/Dietel/Schutloffel.

As far as improvement goes, I'd say half of it is mental, fewer 'clusters' of mistakes, and half of it is strategy--vary the looks on defense. They will get better talent as time goes by. Already, they're the best program in the Dakotas, Minnesota, and (arguably) Wisconsin.

[SoDakJack]

Re: women need improvement?

IMO, OU was more athletic that SDSU in certain areas (PG speed) but SDSU had the advantage in other areas (post conditioning).

The key is being able to use whatever small advantage your team has over the opponent. Due to the OU guards being able to handle the Jacks pace, the one advantange that I thought the Jacks had (bench depth) never really came into play.

That being said, the coaching staff making the change to zone in the 2nd half was a huge deal. It has been pointed out that coming out of the half was the perfect time to make the change. Had SDSU made the change in the 1st half, OU could have made adjustments during the break.

This game showed me just how special of a coach we have in AJ. And to think that some were questioning him in the beginning of the year when the team was finding their way. Our "little school" coach just held his own with one of the better programs in the country...

[JACKGUYII]

Re: women need improvement?

Define it. Describe it.

I'm not saying there wasn't a difference, there obviously was. I'm saying that it's not helpful to describe the difference as 'athletic' as though that were sufficient.

And I don't think the Jacks did a good enough job pushing Abi. I think the Jacks had a definite 'athletic' advantage in the post through superior conditioning. I think they could have wore out Abi by keeping her moving on defense (drawing her out to the wings, for instance), and pushing the transition game. Fortunately for her, the Sooner guards did a pretty good job slowing play down until she could get into position at -her- speed, not a speed dictated by Boever/Sunnarborg/Dietel/Schutloffel.

As far as improvement goes, I'd say half of it is mental, fewer 'clusters' of mistakes, and half of it is strategy--vary the looks on defense. They will get better talent as time goes by. Already, they're the best program in the Dakotas, Minnesota, and (arguably) Wisconsin.

I will define it. They jumped a little higher and can move with and without the ball a little quicker as evidenced by our constantly getting being beat on the back door. We had some mental issues going on in the first half. One constant all year is we missed a lot of bunnies and made a lot of unforced errors. Take care of those things and we may have beat OU. Against elite teams who have better athletes and maybe better basketball players and coaches our margin for error is razor thin.

[JamesJacks]

Re: women need improvement?

But -is- Abi Olajuwon a 'Big Twelve caliber player'? She was basically brought in to spell the Paris sisters who -were- Big Twelve caliber.

I would think her stats justify her as a Big12 caliber player. She averages 10.3 points and 7.1 rebounds a game.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: women need improvement?

JackguyII has a nice atart on defining it. You are right in what you wrote about post conditioning but it isn't as easy as you put it. In order to expose that we needed to be able to move the ball better on the perimeter which was difficult due to their speed at the guard position. The also made it tough for us to run in transition and make Abi sprint up and down the floor.

We could split hairs like that all afternoon but at the end of the day they had a number of small advantages like that made the difference. It didn't hurt for them to be playing at home either.

AJ no doubt knows what things he wants to improve on and where we need to improve. That works for me.

SUPERBUNNY

[filbert]

Re: women need improvement?

Scheme and team execution can and does beat raw individual athletic ability. The game isn't who can put the "best athletes" on the floor, the game is who can get the most points in 40 minutes.

Even both scheme/execution and individual ability brought together don't necessarily win the day.

Ask the Kansas Jayhawks.

Of course SDSU's women's basketball program--players, coaches, operations, everything--needs to improve. So, apparently, does KU's men's program.

Improvement is a goal, not a destination.

I think the women's team is capable of being a Top 25 program next year. It all depends on what they do this off-season to prepare, both mentally and physically.

One of the comments from Rotert at the OU post-game interview leads me to think that this game may have just lit a fire under our women to come back next season much, much, much more prepared than they were this year. I think they have a much better understanding now about what they need to do to stay at the upper levels of college women's basketball than they did last year at this time.

Can you tell I'm pretty excited about next year already?

[bigticket1]

Re: women need improvement?

Define it. Describe it.

I'm not saying there wasn't a difference, there obviously was. I'm saying that it's not helpful to describe the difference as 'athletic' as though that were sufficient.

And I don't think the Jacks did a good enough job pushing Abi. I think the Jacks had a definite 'athletic' advantage in the post through superior conditioning. I think they could have wore out Abi by keeping her moving on defense (drawing her out to the wings, for instance), and pushing the transition game. Fortunately for her, the Sooner guards did a pretty good job slowing play down until she could get into position at -her- speed, not a speed dictated by Boever/Sunnarborg/Dietel/Schutloffel.

As far as improvement goes, I'd say half of it is mental, fewer 'clusters' of mistakes, and half of it is strategy--vary the looks on defense. They will get better talent as time goes by. Already, they're the best program in the Dakotas, Minnesota, and (arguably) Wisconsin.

In evaluating post players,winning a 50 yard dash would not be the most important trait I would look for. Olajuwon and their other post definitely were not faster or quicker than our posts,but who had the bigger impact on the game? How many times did we drive to the basket,see the Sooner post player there and fling up shots that often didn't even draw iron ? I would guess the Oklahoma coaching staff would have been content to let our posts fire up 3 pointers all day,as long as they could deny drives to the basket. And calling Olajuwan and Julia Whitted similar in terms of athletic ability is quite the stretch.