Stu Whitney

[AZjack]

Re: Stu Whitney

I found it objective and very well written. Enlightening.

Maybe you should quit posting when you've been drinking. I know booze doesn't increase my IQ and it certainly does not raise yours.

[zooropa]

Re: Stu Whitney

I found it objective and very well written.

What part of it was 'well written'? Heck, it wasn't even formatted well.

[mango4]

Re: Stu Whitney

I found it objective and very well written. Enlightening.

Ok one, it wasn't that well written. Two, everyone has way too thin of skins. Three, not a big fan of the B girls state in Aberdeen comment. Four, it's a blog, who cares?

[zooropa]

Re: Stu Whitney

everyone has way too thin of skins

Sorry. Stu just pulled the intellectual equivalent of arguing that African-Americans are intellectually inferior based on SAT scores.

Yes, I just pulled an extreme example, but the same intent to distort reality through selective use of facts is present there. While there are certainly greater consequences morally for arguing the extreme I presented, both arguments are equally dishonest intellectually.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Stu Whitney

Your right...it's Stu so who cares, all everyone is doing is giving him a bigger ego...you can bet your bottom dollar he is snooping on here now eating all this up.

I know. Lets stop it. I can't give him any more ammunition.

[Kemo]

Re: Stu Whitney

Kemo, if you are the same kemo1283 from that blog you have no business talking about Whitney after that garbage.

For the record NDSU fans have been pretty respectful of Nagy and SDSU, I don't know where that post came from but I hope whoever that guy is in the minority among SDSU fans. Getting this team to where it is now from where it was after Miles left required a lot more than just being there.

Yes, I did write that, and I won't retract the point I was trying to make, but at second look, I think my words seem harsher than what they were intended to be. So let me clarify:

There was at least one poster who was raving about the job Saul has been doing at NDSU and that SDSU should basically go out and hire his replica, which would automatically put us in the same situation the Bison is right now. My point was that Saul didn't just walk in there and turn a zero into a title contender, he inherited a very desirable situation with the amount of talent in the current senior class, and I don't think you can honestly say that he is the reason for NDSU's current success. You can give him kudos for holding down the ship when Miles left, but this senior class, especially Woodside, is the reason NDSU will be competing for the conference championship and an NCAA birth.

I want to make it clear that I truly have nothing against Saul and I wish him the best in his coaching career except when he plays SDSU, but I do think he is going to find himself out of favor with Bison fans if he stumbles in the upcoming years, as the bar has been set too high. Yes, he could make me put my foot in my mouth by going out and continuing to compete for conference championship, but I just don't see the players in line to do that after this year.

I should have said that Saul is an unproven commodity, as I can see where I came off as making it sound like he doesn't know how to coach. My point is that it's a lot easier job to coach when you can run an entire offense around Ben Woodside (who I think is not only the Summit MVP, but also should be considered for All-American honors), than to run a balance offense that requires scheme and execution to create open shots for players. Time will tell whether this season was the result of Philips coaching/managing prowless or if it was largely due to a talented, senior laden team. I'm not much of a gambler, but if I had to put money down on this I'd take the latter.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Stu Whitney

Sorry. Stu just pulled the intellectual equivalent of arguing that African-Americans are intellectually inferior based on SAT scores.

Yes, I just pulled an extreme example, but the same intent to distort reality through selective use of facts is present there. While there are certainly greater consequences morally for arguing the extreme I presented, both arguments are equally dishonest intellectually.

I understand you attempt, but race has no place here. Don't do that again, please. Its not appropriate at all, even trying to use it in context you did.

[Nidaros]

Re: Stu Whitney

Stu is Stu. Whether talking about a thick soup or a sportswriter, it is what it is.

IMO, Coach Nagy has done a sufficient through the transition and specifically this year to warrant one more crack at it next season.

To the incoming AD, I would guess he or she would give Coach Nagy next year. An AD's number 1 job is to keep their job (just like the rest of us), if you replace with your own guy right out of the gate and he falls on his face, now you're the AD who fired a fairly popular coach for some moron that can't tie his shoes. If you give Coach Nagy one more year and he botches it, you're the guy who is willing to make difficult decisions based on facts you have seen in person. Which situation speaks more of long term employment?

I would agree with your post here and also add that the AD often has to get some sort of approval from the President's admin staff for all the major decisions. I suspect the President has to sign off on personnel changes. How President Chicoine views all of this situation is a mystery to me and those who might have insight because of where they are employed would be fools to comment. So its one of these things were we can not predict the outcome. The outcome will play out with time.

TV does a great job, and spends a lot of time communicating with SDSU staff in order to write his blogs and articles. He might not publish everything he knows or is aware of. He may have uncovered some things that would shock us into the next world, but he can not as a beat writer publish them be it an article or a blog. The fact that Stu is hanging on the notion that a coaching change being eminent in the future is interesting, but thats about all.

[Nidaros]

Re: Stu Whitney

I found it objective and very well written. Enlightening.

Why would you think otherwise?

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Stu Whitney

Steve transferred to play for his home state of Ill. He didn't play that many minutes to be considered their sixth man(played 14 games with 6.9 minutes a game average). Andre pretty much had to transfer, even though he was found not-guilty. I just don't see any way he could have played his last 2 years at SDSU. Again, he did start some games for K-State (15 of 27) but he was suspended during the year too. He left K-State after his junior year. As for Matt, did you see how he played his soph. year? He didn't want to be here.

I thought I saw an article that talked about Steve being the 6th man for that Illinois program.

I understand that Andre had to transfer, which was/is very unfortunate for him and this program and for, ahem, Scott Nagy, who had nothing to do with it.

And Cadwell left and was still a good player for Concordia.

Okay....none of those players, after they left the program, went on to stardom. However, they were all decent while they were here and they were YOUNG while they were here, which gave them time to mature and become better players. They all went on to have respectable years for the teams they went to. Two of the three went on to play in the Big 10 and Big XII. They weren't superstars there, but there is little question that, had they stayed here, this program would be better then and probably now.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Stu Whitney

There is one fact, however, that Stu writes that cannot be twisted -- 0-16 road record in the Summit. This would not be considered acceptable at many other programs.

Where would 0-16 on the road not be acceptable? It wouldn't be acceptable at elite programs with elite coaches, or, at programs who have already experienced D-1 success. That's it. Other than that, 0-16 for a team that is in transition and has gone through what State has gone through, at a lower level D-1 program, would be acceptable. Heck, even though the attendance numbers are down, State still draws more fans and more interest than alot of other mid to lower level D-1 programs. 0-16, etc, will not be acceptable forever at SDSU or pretty much anywhere else, but I think the flock here is understanding and, rightly so, will temper their expectations for the time being.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Stu Whitney

I think our Midwest skin is a little thin here. Nagy would be torched in a bigger market with a 0-16 road record. I think all things considered the press has been very kind to him and the team. Stu's job is to poke and antagnoize and it seems he has accomplished his job based on some of the reactions.

Again, IMO, it's not about the market size but the history of the program and the expectations. I think Nagy isn't "torched" b/c the people know what he has done in the past, know what he is capable of and understand the current state of the program. Like I said, people will not stand for this forever, but, for now, they can put up with it b/c they are reasonable and understand.

I have small ties to the U of Kansas and follow that program. One thing Bill Self (a genuine and very good guy) said this last year when they won the title was that "our fans guide this program". For some reason that has never left my mind. It is a powerful statement on a few fronts. I would love for this to be the case at SDSU.

[FargoBison]

Re: Stu Whitney

Yes, I did write that, and I won't retract the point I was trying to make, but at second look, I think my words seem harsher than what they were intended to be. So let me clarify:

There was at least one poster who was raving about the job Saul has been doing at NDSU and that SDSU should basically go out and hire his replica, which would automatically put us in the same situation the Bison is right now. My point was that Saul didn't just walk in there and turn a zero into a title contender, he inherited a very desirable situation with the amount of talent in the current senior class, and I don't think you can honestly say that he is the reason for NDSU's current success. You can give him kudos for holding down the ship when Miles left, but this senior class, especially Woodside, is the reason NDSU will be competing for the conference championship and an NCAA birth.

I want to make it clear that I truly have nothing against Saul and I wish him the best in his coaching career except when he plays SDSU, but I do think he is going to find himself out of favor with Bison fans if he stumbles in the upcoming years, as the bar has been set too high. Yes, he could make me put my foot in my mouth by going out and continuing to compete for conference championship, but I just don't see the players in line to do that after this year.

I should have said that Saul is an unproven commodity, as I can see where I came off as making it sound like he doesn't know how to coach. My point is that it's a lot easier job to coach when you can run an entire offense around Ben Woodside (who I think is not only the Summit MVP, but also should be considered for All-American honors), than to run a balance offense that requires scheme and execution to create open shots for players. Time will tell whether this season was the result of Philips coaching/managing prowless or if it was largely due to a talented, senior laden team. I'm not much of a gambler, but if I had to put money down on this I'd take the latter.

Saul did inherit a pretty good situation but the team he inherited was by no means perfect. He had to fill a huge void that Andre Smith left behind, and he has done that by making this team much stronger defensively. NDSU has won three or four games while shooting in 30% range this year, the team could never win those types of games before.

Keep in mind this team was 10-8 in the Summit last year, and was getting crushed by some poor teams on the road. He is a guy that preached defense as soon as he took the reigns and that defensive toughness is what has helped take this team next level.

So your words were pretty harsh, saying unproven commodity would have been better because basically not one of Saul's recruits has touched the floor. That said Saul is a guy that has been here from the start, there is no doubt he helped develop the players we have now and I think NDSU's coaching staff is one of the best in the Summit. He isn't the reason why NDSU is having success, but he damn sure is one of them. If SDSU is ever looking for a new coach they would be fools to overlook a guy like Saul that has worked with the likes of Bo Ryan, Tim Miles, and Greg McDermott. In DI most coaches that are hired on the mid-major level are unproven assistants.

I would put money down on him having success, next year likely will not be the same as this year but NDSU will become a top tier Summit League team under Saul.

[rcjacks]

Re: Stu Whitney

Stu can't take that Terry is twice the writter he is and Terry is 12 years younger. It makes him cranky and lash out at Terry's beat, us. His emotions make him write silly things.

A small price to pay to have Terry covering our Jacks.

Actually, whether you agree with Stu's opinion or not, Stu is a wordsmith. His writing is clear, it flows and tells his story. I would guarantee that Terry would even admit that Stu is an excellent writer.

[zooropa]

Re: Stu Whitney

Actually, whether you agree with Stu's opinion or not, Stu is a wordsmith. His writing is clear, it flows and tells his story. I would guarantee that Terry would even admit that Stu is an excellent writer.

Well, would someone tell Mr. Wordsmith to hit "enter" twice at the end of each paragraph?