Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Thanks, Jacks. Your impressive victory over ISU has restored my support for this year's team and my optimism for the future. As Nagy says, when this team plays hard, it can be very good, even though the players are relatively short and not loaded with natural talent.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

And Gill was everybody's first choice to replace chizik. But that didn't work out. We moved on from him.

I meant Gill instead of Chizik, not Gill after Chizik.

Problem is Gill was hired in '05 at Buffalo, so he'd only been on the job for a year.

Still, part of me thinks that there's more than a few 'Gills' out there, guys that have spent enough time around a program to figure a few things out--important things. And that they tend to get over looked because they don't generate hype.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

You're going to say "well he brought those guys to campus".

Exactly, that's exactly what I'm going to say. A considerable part of his pay is based on his ability to vet high school students.

3:53
[Comment From NDRabbit]
Coach, you do a great job. Question: I believe I read somewhere that you said there are certain type of kids you recruit, both as an athlete and person. What is that type? 3:54
AJ: The type that does more good than bad. That would be in most areas of their life. We don't do FBI background checks, but do enough in the recruiting process to learn if someone puts a high priority on being successful. They should make good decisions and represent their school well. They should not have a history of poor decisions.
That's from AJ's live chat.

Granted, you're going to make mistakes from time to time, but the recruiting classes early on were so bad as to pass beyond 'one of those things'.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

OK, there is a huge difference between mens and womens basketball... And at the college level its even bigger. 1st you add 2 scholarships, less major conferences, and even less mid-major conferences.... The point I get is that you look at the Summit League to the MVC, and Horizon there is no difference with womens, in Mens its huge....

I think you actually add 3. Isn't MBB 12 scholarships? WBB is 15.

Secondly, take a look at the Sagarin breakdowns for MBB & WBB:

http://www.rpiratings.com/womrate.htm
http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cbsend.htm

About halfway down are the conference rankings.

Here's what's interesting: The MBB rankings are much tighter than the WBB rankings, from top to bottom (indicating that MBB is, overall, more competitive).

However, note how closely spaced the 5 best WBB conferences are. Compare them to the 5 best MBB conferences.

Point being: It is easy to muddle up through the =middle= of WBB. But it is much more difficult to break into the top tier than in MBB.

There is, basically, a 'glass ceiling' in WBB--it's easy to get to a certain point (probably about a 100-50 RPI), but very difficult to crack and stay in about the top 50.

[Nidaros]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I disagree almost entirely with this assertion.

I agree that physically there is a smaller gap in women's basketball.

I also agree that 15 scholarships vs. 12 makes a difference in recruiting.

However, I disagree with the competition for talent aspect. Why?

Because you have schools that take WBB seriously and that aggregate talent becoming perennial powerhouses (Tennessee, Connecticut). These teams are as hard to knock off as any MBB powerhouse. Harder, in fact, because they take WBB seriously where so many other schools with big budgets treat WBB as an afterthought.

The lack of money, IMO, has created a smaller group of 'super majors'. It hasn't made it -=easier=- to succeed. Both M & W polls are routinely populated with BCS schools, perhaps even more so in WBB.

Furthermore, I think it's a mistake to assert that the state (or region) has fewer 'D1' players in MBB.

Why?

Because we're comparing two very very very different styles of coaching (up until this season).

If AJ didn't have Rotert, Cornemann, Oistad, Michelson, Warkenthien, etc. all together, I think you'd have a hard time making a case that any of them were D-1 talents. But together, they make a compelling case for each other.

These girls, none of them are Candace Parker--and I think it's extremely unfair to hold Cordova (for instance) up against the best 4s and 5s in college basketball and argue that "SD has fewer D-1 caliber players in MBB"

Far better to let the seasons play out, and see what Nagy does with the talent he recruits going forward, than to cherry pick examples and say, 'so and so isn't a D-1 player' all on his own.

Obviously Zorrba you know more about this than I do so no point in trying to follow up, I will just try harder.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Obviously Zorrba you know more about this than I do so no point in trying to follow up, I will just try harder.

I think it's a good idea to say that WBB & MBB are =different= and leave it at that.

I also think that Nagy's recruiting has been very good the last few years. Not fantastic, but dare I say it, better than the boys up north......

[joeboo22]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

there is 13 scholarships for the mens program... the point I get is the men and women will loose that recruit every 3-5 years to a big school, but 99 out of 100 times the women will get the recruit over the MVC and the Horizon, the men won't.... NDSU had good recruiting years the first couple of years and a lot of that could be looked at the state of the Minnesota program, the guys they got from Minnesota where good enough to go to Minnesota and wanted to go to Minnesota but Minnesota wasn't recruiting Minnesota at that time, that has changed now....

[cydave]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I meant Gill instead of Chizik, not Gill after Chizik.

Problem is Gill was hired in '05 at Buffalo, so he'd only been on the job for a year.

Still, part of me thinks that there's more than a few 'Gills' out there, guys that have spent enough time around a program to figure a few things out--important things. And that they tend to get over looked because they don't generate hype.

Yes, his experience was still a little lacking. But, turning around Buffalo and taking them to a bowl is nothing short of a miracle. lol.

And sorry everybody for taking this thread OT.. i'll stop here.
It's obvious we both have different views so lets agree to disagree.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

How about some Cyclone pie for Christmas leftovers.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

What's the deal with all of the run ins with the law?

Can't argue there. That stuff is just embarrassing to the university and needs to be cleaned up. I would argue that Iowa City is more than just a party haven. Having the campus and downtown mixed together means it's a great place to work. Walk out of your office and there are 50 restaurants to choose from. There's a great art scene. And everything from Socialists to families on the pedestrian mall. Iowa State has a beautiful campus. Iowa City is just a fun place in general.

[Nidaros]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I think it's a good idea to say that WBB & MBB are =different= and leave it at that.

I also think that Nagy's recruiting has been very good the last few years. Not fantastic, but dare I say it, better than the boys up north......

In conclusion, I do agree there were many mistakes made in the transition period. If Coach Nagy could take it all back and do it over, I am sure he would do some things differently.
I think Coach Boots has a little softer road to travel since he has the SDSU map through transition to follow. I dont think either Coach Miles or Nagy had much to go on when they started the transition other than to talk to each other, but even with a wider network of coaches you really wonder how helpful would they have been to both coaches. I suspect even if Boots is calling Nagy, on the telephone, there probably is a limit or a line in the answers offered by Coach Nagy to Coach Boots questions. Even coaches have to learn by doing. All the answers are not written down or published in a book.

Whether the recruiting recently at SDSU is better than that up at NDSU, only time will tell. Yes NDSU loses some key cogs this year, but what else they have is an unknown right now.

[FargoBison]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Whether the recruiting recently at SDSU is better than that up at NDSU, only time will tell. Yes NDSU loses some key cogs this year, but what else they have is an unknown right now.

Yeah it is going to be interesting, Saul put a nice class together this year but it's hard to say what will happen until they get to campus and start playing. About the only known quantity after the big three is Michael Tveidt, he is turning into a great player.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

First chance to get on the computer since the game and have been dying to read the posts.

This is that first big win we have all been waqiting for. I expect the team to grow tremendously from the experience.

We can all relax and get behinf them for the rest of the year. This could be an awfully fun ride the rest of the year following our two basketball teams.

Let's lock Nagy down to a long-term contract before other schools come knocking!

Enjoy the win and the break gentleman!

GB, GB, GJ!

SUPERBUNNY

[joeboo22]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I think it's a good idea to say that WBB & MBB are =different= and leave it at that.

I also think that Nagy's recruiting has been very good the last few years. Not fantastic, but dare I say it, better than the boys up north......

I think one thing that is overlooked is football.... mid-major basketball schools also have to recruit against football programs for some athletes.... Dale Moss could of played WR for the Jacks, Woody Orne would probably start for the Jacks basketball team.... Wags could of played basketball for all 4 years.....

just think how much better the Jacks would be if Woody Orne and Jared Vlastuin where on the squad?