Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

[cydave]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

So do what SDSU did with their baseball program. Name an interim coach.

Its different than that. We need a HC for the next 5 years. Not coaches coming in and out. Building this program will take a lot of time under 1 coach. The players and recruits want to know who they will be playing for, and they want to know now. Otherwise, you can kiss your best talent goodbye in leaving for other schools.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

A local hire odd, with ISU ties?? How's that odd for a BCS school?

At these levels, you can't waiste time looking for a new coach.

With how competitive it is these days in the coaching business, you don't get much time to grab a good HC.

I'm no fan of Rich Rodriguez, but Michigan took their sweet time finding a new head coach, and that was knowing well in advance that Lloyd Carr was retiring.

Also, UCLA took almost the entire month of December to replace Karl Dorrell.

Granted, in both cases, I think the schools hired dirt-bags, but that's beside the point. Point being, the vacancies existed for a month before being filled.

I suppose you could argue that UCLA & Michigan could hold onto recruits and players during a coaching change, still I find the recent hiring moves by Iowa State to be precipitous, and that includes spending less than two months to find a new AD.

I would argue that your position as a bottom tier BCS school in all three revenue sports suggests that =more= time be invested in personnel decisions, not =less=.

Seriously, Chizik's record over two years was 5-19--do you guys stand to lose that much if some of his darling recruits and players opt to follow him to Auburn?

Finally, looking at coaching vacancies at the BCS (and even FBS) level over the past week--- how many are there? I don't think that you'd lose a qualified candidate to some other school if you took some time to check up on some references, etc.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

It's a speedy, yet precise search process

Somehow, I don't think those two adjectives can be combined all that often. Notre Dame got burned by George O'Leary back in 2001 because they 'had to have a head coach right away, etc. etc.'

[cydave]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I'm no fan of Rich Rodriguez, but Michigan took their sweet time finding a new head coach, and that was knowing well in advance that Lloyd Carr was retiring.

Also, UCLA took almost the entire month of December to replace Karl Dorrell.

Granted, in both cases, I think the schools hired dirt-bags, but that's beside the point. Point being, the vacancies existed for a month before being filled.

I suppose you could argue that UCLA & Michigan could hold onto recruits and players during a coaching change, still I find the recent hiring moves by Iowa State to be precipitous, and that includes spending less than two months to find a new AD.

I would argue that your position as a bottom tier BCS school in all three revenue sports suggests that =more= time be invested in personnel decisions, not =less=.

Seriously, Chizik's record over two years was 5-19--do you guys stand to lose that much if some of his darling recruits and players opt to follow him to Auburn?

Finally, looking at coaching vacancies at the BCS (and even FBS) level over the past week--- how many are there? I don't think that you'd lose a qualified candidate to some other school if you took some time to check up on some references, etc.

First bolded part:
Yes, that's the main reason why ISU has to work fast. Players come to play for the coaches, not the school, (especially at a place like ISU) If Mack Brown or Stoops were to leave, they could take a year to find a new HC and recruits will still come to their doorstep to play. But at ISU, you have to sell your recruits to get them to come here, if there is nobody there to coach, then why come?

The second bolded part:
Yes, we do lose a lot. He has built a solid foundation of freshman and sophs that all had huge amounts of playing time last year. If we lose them, we start all over again from square one. If we keep them, we at least have some good/starting players returning to the field. Trust me, if we lost a lot of our key players from this year, the ISU fans would be sooo discouraged and tickets sales would drop off significantly. Thank God, all of them (so far) have decided to stay and prove that chizik made a mistake by leaving. They want to stick together and finish the job they started.

The last bolded statement:
You are right, as of last week, ISU was the only BCS job in the nation open. But, again, this leads me back to my first point. We have to move fast to keep players around. And, a lot of the candidates we all wanted (patterson TCU, peterson Boise st, Strong of Florida, and a couple others) we couldn't afford. They have all already turned down coaching jobs in previous years from 1.8-2 million. We can't afford anything more than probably 1.5 million/year. When our AD found a good guy, a proven coordinator at 2 BCS schools with winning traditions, a guy with Iowa roots, a great recruiter, and would work for 1.15 Million/year, you have to offer. Of course there were other candidates out there, but either they were too expensive, were waiting for an upper level BCS job, had no Iowa roots (kind of like another chizik), and just didn't fit the job description. The only downside to this hire was that Rhoads has no HC experience.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

But at ISU, you have to sell your recruits to get them to come here, if there is nobody there to coach, then why come?

Thank God, all of them (so far) have decided to stay and prove that chizik made a mistake by leaving.

We have to move fast to keep players around.

I think your second observation sort of undermines the 'move fast' argument. I'm not saying that a long-term vacancy is good, I'm saying that most athletes and recruits =want= to stay where they've committed, and that assigning a 'point man' to reassure current and prospective players, and keep them up to date could allow for a more deliberative process.

Finally, I think 'ties to the state' shouldn't carry that much weight when it comes to hiring decisions--they don't guarantee loyalty. Look at Gene McDermott. He had 'ties to the state' and he jumped ship from UNI to Iowa State after only 5 years on the job.

The institution should be able to rely on more than accidents of geography to instill loyalty, and should do enough due diligence to discover when someone (e.g. Chizik) is likely to bolt for greener pastures as soon as possible. Heck, Chizik was a bouncing ball before coming to Iowa State--why would you believe a guy's protestations of loyalty when everything in his past suggested that he would bolt as soon as he got a better offer?

[jackmd]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

From TV in the Argus Leader today. Remember to click on recommend.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/2...36/1002/SPORTS

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Well I would like to offer my apologies... I have been pretty negative on the Mens team lately. They definetely proved me wrong with this win and I am really proud of them. I will be at all of the remaining home games and I look forward to watching the effort that I heard over the airwaves. Merry Christmas!

[Nidaros]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Well I would like to offer my apologies... I have been pretty negative on the Mens team lately. They definetely proved me wrong with this win and I am really proud of them. I will be at all of the remaining home games and I look forward to watching the effort that I heard over the airwaves. Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you WestsideRabbit:

I had a feeling that this could possibly happen when we played at Virgina Commonwealth and saw how good that team was pegged to be this season. This has to be about the biggest win in SDSU history to date.

I recall way back when Jim Iverson had a very good team and went to Ames about 1958 and played the Cyclones close, but that team was very probably very out matched in talent and depth. SDSU no doubt had one of their better games of that season against Iowa State and still did not win. (Checked media guide, it was first game of 1958-59 season, 56-63, and this would have been Don Jacobsen's first season as a varsity Jack. 3 years eligibilty and play started sophomore year. I vaguely remember listening on radio, Waterloo station as WNAX did have a contract like they do now.)

Now we have 5 years of different type of recruiting and we got a win over a B12 school. Should it have come sooner? Maybe It shows that the talent gap between D1 and D2 is probably greater among men than women. Playing by the rules, means taking a bunch of lumps along the way. We are making progress in recruiting talent. I think we will have a much different and much more talented team when Griffin Callahan leaves SDSU with a degree in hand. It just takes a lot of time.


I dont mean to put down SDSU women, as they are doing real well against big name teams. Its big win no matter how you look at it.

[Jacks99]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Listened to first and last quarter of the game. Didn't realize at the time how big a win there would be.

Very nice to be 2-3 in the last three games going into conference. I don't see any reason why we can't be 7th or higher in the standings. Would be great to not just sneak into the conf. tourney.

Front page print Argus story had huge picture and title "Signature Win" Nice to see that.

I think (hope) the next half of the season will see the Jacks competetive and winning over .500 That would be a successful season when viewing back when the season started. Griffen is a huge boost to this team, biggest being more solid minutes to keep this team fresh.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Cap'n. Been watching your posts for some time now and decided this was as good a time as any for a spirit-of-the-season, Yuletide gift-to-yourself suggestion:

1. Position yourself as near as you can near the Jackrabbit women's bench Monday night
2. Watch, listen and learn.
3. Forget the scoreboard - that'll take care of itself, probably not to your liking, but it's the experience you'll be looking for.
4. See student-athletes in action.
5. Report back on your findings. We'll be waiting with great anticipation.

[cydave]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I think your second observation sort of undermines the 'move fast' argument. I'm not saying that a long-term vacancy is good, I'm saying that most athletes and recruits =want= to stay where they've committed, and that assigning a 'point man' to reassure current and prospective players, and keep them up to date could allow for a more deliberative process.

Finally, I think 'ties to the state' shouldn't carry that much weight when it comes to hiring decisions--they don't guarantee loyalty. Look at Gene McDermott. He had 'ties to the state' and he jumped ship from UNI to Iowa State after only 5 years on the job.

The institution should be able to rely on more than accidents of geography to instill loyalty, and should do enough due diligence to discover when someone (e.g. Chizik) is likely to bolt for greener pastures as soon as possible. Heck, Chizik was a bouncing ball before coming to Iowa State--why would you believe a guy's protestations of loyalty when everything in his past suggested that he would bolt as soon as he got a better offer?

Well, at least at ISU, in the past players like to leave when the coach leaves. Take example basketball when Wayne Morgan left, following his departure we lost, Curtis Stinson, Will Blalock, Shawn Taggert, Cory Macintosh, Dodie Dunson, etc...

Having local roots isn't a the main factor we are looking at, but it really does help! Mac has Iowa roots and by giving him a job that pays millions and he still gets to stay 1 hour away from his hometown and coach in his home state is a pretty good incentive to leave UNI for ISU. Not to mention be on a bigger stage, better facilities, more money, and coach in the Big 12, are great things to have, all on top of staying in state.

Chizik did bolt around a lot, but a lot of coordinators do, to keep getting a better job and working their way up the ladder and getting experience. Once you are finally a head coach, usually you would expect them to stay at that school until they finish the job they started, get offered a better job where they can leave the school in a good situation, get fired, or stay. Chizik did none of the above.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Maybe It shows that the talent gap between D1 and D2 is probably greater among men than women.

I don't agree entirely with that.

Our 'partners in transition' have fared much better than we have at men's basketball.

I really think it comes down to an attitude about coaching and recruiting that was unsupportable at the D-1 level. Nagy, in the upper midwest, had his pick of the best of the D-2 talent pool, and his teams were among the most talented teams in D-2. That's not going to translate to D-1. At this level in D-1 you're going to have to bring the "Avis" attitude to every game you play.... Something I think AJ looks for in the girls he recruits, but something that I don't think Nagy was necessarily in the habit of looking for toward the end of the D-2 era and the beginning of the D-1 transition.

[zooropa]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Well, at least at ISU, in the past players like to leave when the coach leaves. Take example basketball when Wayne Morgan left, following his departure we lost, Curtis Stinson, Will Blalock, Shawn Taggert, Cory Macintosh, Dodie Dunson, etc...

Having local roots isn't a the main factor we are looking at, but it really does help! Mac has Iowa roots and by giving him a job that pays millions and he still gets to stay 1 hour away from his hometown and coach in his home state is a pretty good incentive to leave UNI for ISU. Not to mention be on a bigger stage, better facilities, more money, and coach in the Big 12, are great things to have, all on top of staying in state.

Chizik did bolt around a lot, but a lot of coordinators do, to keep getting a better job and working their way up the ladder and getting experience. Once you are finally a head coach, usually you would expect them to stay at that school until they finish the job they started, get offered a better job where they can leave the school in a good situation, get fired, or stay. Chizik did none of the above.

Yeah, but your guy Morgan was possibly engaged in some shady activities to land those recruits.

Besides, you replaced Morgan in about 10 days, and it didn't prevent those players from leaving.

Also, my point about home state and loyalties only works if you're the biggest fish in the state. If Iowa offered even more to McDermott and he bolted for them, would you look at that as "an opportunity to play on an even bigger stage"?

Regarding Chizik, yeah, coordinators tend to move around a lot, but I'd argue that Chizik was particularly bouncy. He only stayed for one full recruiting class in one place: SFA. I would sincerely question any prospective head coach's ability to manage the whole student-athlete experience if he's never recruited and developed the same players.

Oh, and one more note--it seems Pollard wanted Chizik, period, end of story. At least that's what his ISU sanctioned web page says.

It just, I don't know, seems like the wrong way to go about digging yourself out of a hole--to (in Chizik's case) have someone in mind before you interview anyone, or to (in Rhoad's case, or McDermott's) give the appearance of reacting instead of taking control of the situation away from the departing coach.

[Chains]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

Finally had an opportunity to watch the ISU / SDSU men's game yesterday. An early Xmas present for the men's program. Will certainly make the holiday season a little more enjoyable. Great win gentlemen and good luck the balance of the year.

GBGBGJ

[Nidaros]

Re: Iowa State Cyclones - Game Thread

I don't agree entirely with that.

Our 'partners in transition' have fared much better than we have at men's basketball.

I really think it comes down to an attitude about coaching and recruiting that was unsupportable at the D-1 level. Nagy, in the upper midwest, had his pick of the best of the D-2 talent pool, and his teams were among the most talented teams in D-2. That's not going to translate to D-1. At this level in D-1 you're going to have to bring the "Avis" attitude to every game you play.... Something I think AJ looks for in the girls he recruits, but something that I don't think Nagy was necessarily in the habit of looking for toward the end of the D-2 era and the beginning of the D-1 transition.

Avis attitude? Whats that about? Its getting to be ancient history, but SDSU left D2 with seven seniors I believe because of the fact that some of them had gotten redshirts for medical and other reasons. If the rules for D2 were identical to D1, most of those seniors would not have been playing and would have allowed for Nagy to do better recruiting. Also with the rules in D1 and making progress towards a degree if you arent making that progress be it medical or otherwise, you have to move on to D2 or D3 to use your eligibilty. I think these rules have allowed USD to pick up some of their D1 transfers. I believe that they NDSU and SDSU programs had different challenges when they both left D2. Miles I will concede was more aggressive in his recruiting and it worked for him and he left Saul Phillips a good program.

Those seven seniors in my opinion, really slowed down the the recruiting that should have taken place in the last 2 years of D2. As a result, we had a gap filled with walk on's and so to compare it to AJ recruiting is little hard to understand.
I think the talent level between men and women are not the same. There Big Dances involve fewer dollars and thus the competition for talent is more intense in the men's program. Besides I really dont think we have that many D1 candidates as compared to D2 people. Nagy in my opinion has had a much harder challenge than AJ. We were not able to go out and fill 13 full rides the first year and I believe this is what Greg McDermott was mentioning in the article in todays Argus.