Big time home games???

[joeboo22]

I know that it is very tuff to get a top of the line D-1 home game but I really think that if they could get 1 it would not only help with attendence but with recruiting. If you look at last year they played Kentucky and Illiniois, they lost both but got national attension for that. I understand that not to many top 40 teams are going to sign a home and home or even a 2-1 but I think that SDSU has to go out there and try to get a Texas, Ohio State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Colorado, Colorado State (try to keep it fairly close) to come to Frost Arena by doing this you get kids who have liked those teams since they were little but not quite good enough to think about playing SDSU. I also look at the mens schedule and see alot of mid majors on there schedule while the womens team plays the USC, Virgina, Baylor, and other nationally reconized programs sometimes even at home.

[Jacks99]

Re: Big time home games???

It definetly would be huge when they do get those games, hopefully it's only a matter of a few years. I'm sure those that are scheduling are doing their best. However, I don't think it's fair to compare Women's to Men's, with the main reason that the high profile schools have much more profit at home for the Men's vs Women's.

[joeboo22]

Re: Big time home games???

I have no experience in athletic directing or anything in that sort but how far in advance can you schedule?? how many games are you allowed a year??? If it took a 2-1 plus 2 other games to get one home game could you? would it be worth it if thats what it took to book a Illinios, Texas, Ohio State, exc?? Last year when we went over to Champaine did we get a cash sum for doing so or did we get a % of the revenue from that game or a combination of both?? Does anybody know how the money works out??

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Big time home games???

Utah State is a pretty good program that usually averages around 20 wins a season. I'd think that drawing more than a couple of thousand for an opponent like that would be necessary before any of the really big programs would show up. In other words, the first step might be to get home attendance comfortably above that of Northern State. No doubt several years with Mid-Con affiliation will help.

[filbert]

Re: Big time home games???

I have no experience in athletic directing or anything in that sort but how far in advance can you schedule?? how many games are you allowed a year??? If it took a 2-1 plus 2 other games to get one home game could you? would it be worth it if thats what it took to book a Illinios, Texas, Ohio State, exc?? Last year when we went over to Champaine did we get a cash sum for doing so or did we get a % of the revenue from that game or a combination of both?? Does anybody know how the money works out??

Schedules for men's basketball are generally made a year in advance (there's an NCAA deadline of September 15th to get your schedule into them for that year, in order to be in the RPI ratings). Naturally, if you've got a multi-year contract with another school, you've got the game in hand, but generally they aren't finally scheduled until the summer before the season.

You might be able to get some of the lower power-conference teams into Frost with a 2 for 1 contract if there's some other connection between the programs, or some of the mid-major conference teams like Utah State.

Some big-name programs like Kansas have a tradition of going to play in states where they have recruited players from (they went to UND because their guard Boschee came from North Dakota, for instance). Other big-name schools won't make a road game to a Mid-Con team, EVER, never, don't bother asking unless you enjoy being laughed at over the phone. Generally, we'd need a real strong personal connection with someone on the big-name team before they would even give a second thought to coming to Frost Arena.

The only thing that might start changing the situation is if SDSU reels off a string of 20+ win seasons and making some noise in the NCAA tournament. That's the Gonzaga model, and also how the Missouri Valley teams are starting to get a bit more respect schedule-wise from the big-names. But they still have great difficulty getting the upper-crust programs out of their big, full arenas and on the road. There's just not a great enough financial or competitive advantage to the big-names to go on the road for non-conference games against teams like SDSU.

The Illinois game, and most with higher-level power-conference teams, are "guarantee" games, meaning that we're going there in return for a paycheck--seems to me that the payout to SDSU can be up to somewhere in the $20,000 range. You take the beating and walk away with the cash. Pre-season tournaments like the BCA this year are similar, with a guaranteed paycheck for playing in the tournament.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Big time home games???

It was a far differnt era but I remember Al McGuire bringing Marquette to Vermillion in 1968. I think they had some of the same players (Brill?) who were on the team that won the national title. Lived in Milwaukee at the time-- think that was back when USD was a one man team: Jack Theeler--altho. he may have graduated the year before.

Game was closer than expected--MU probably won by about 5 points. Remember McGuire's interview saying it was a snake pit and he'd never, never, do anything like that again.

[1bunnies]

Re: Big time home games???

It was a far differnt era but I remember Al McGuire bringing Marquette to Vermillion in 1968.  I think they had some of the same players (Brill?) who were on the team that won the national title.  Lived in Milwaukee at the time-- think that was back when USD was a one man team: Jack Theeler--altho. he may have graduated the year before.  

Game was closer than expected--MU probably won by about 5 points.  Remember McGuire's interview saying it was a snake pit and he'd never, never, do anything like that again.  

Marquette won their national title in 1977. So if they had players that played against USD in 68 they would have been in their late twenties by the championship season. USD did played Texas Western during their championship season in 66, but that game was not in Verminville.

[da_coach]

Re: Big time home games???

[quote author=joeboo22 link=1164940925/0#2 date=1164954786]I have no experience in athletic directing or anything in that sort but how far in advance can you schedule?? how many games are you allowed a year??? If it took a 2-1 plus 2 other games to get one home game could you? would it be worth it if thats what it took to book a Illinios, Texas, Ohio State, exc?? Last year when we went over to Champaine did we get a cash sum for doing so or did we get a % of the revenue from that game or a combination of both?? Does anybody know how the money works out??

Schedules for men's basketball are generally made a year in advance (there's an NCAA deadline of September 15th to get your schedule into them for that year, in order to be in the RPI ratings).  Naturally, if you've got a multi-year contract with another school, you've got the game in hand, but generally they aren't finally scheduled until the summer before the season.

You might be able to get some of the lower power-conference teams into Frost with a 2 for 1 contract if there's some other connection between the programs, or some of the mid-major conference teams like Utah State.

Some big-name programs like Kansas have a tradition of going to play in states where they have recruited players from (they went to UND because their guard Boschee came from North Dakota, for instance).  Other big-name schools won't make a road game to a Mid-Con team, EVER, never, don't bother asking unless you enjoy being laughed at over the phone.  Generally, we'd need a real strong personal connection with someone on the big-name team before they would even give a second thought to coming to Frost Arena.

The only thing that might start changing the situation is if SDSU reels off a string of 20+ win seasons and making some noise in the NCAA tournament.  That's the Gonzaga model, and also how the Missouri Valley teams are starting to get a bit more respect schedule-wise from the big-names.  But they still have great difficulty getting the upper-crust programs out of their big, full arenas and on the road.  There's just not a great enough financial or competitive advantage to the big-names to go on the road for non-conference games against teams like SDSU.

The Illinois game, and most with higher-level power-conference teams, are "guarantee" games, meaning that we're going there in return for a paycheck--seems to me that the payout to SDSU can be up to somewhere in the $20,000 range.  You take the beating and walk away with the cash.  Pre-season tournaments like the BCA this year are similar, with a guaranteed paycheck for playing in the tournament.  [/quote]

filbert is dead on correct here. There is a book called, "The Last Amateurs" by John Feinstein that outlines all the rigors of "guarantee games" It follows around the Patriot Leage for the season.

It's a great book, but these big time programs won't come here against solid competition. If they travel, like filbert said, it's because they have a senior player from that area (Dean Smith did this all the time). The point is, they don't want to go on the road, and face tough competition, in the other team's house. They know what they will see, and that is why they pay money to have them at home.

Now...again if we start winning a bunch of games, and become contenders like a Gonzaga or a Creighton, when we are good year in and year out, teams will be willing to schedule that.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Big time home games???

It's a great book, but these big time programs won't come here against solid competition. If they travel, like filbert said, it's because they have a senior player from that area (Dean Smith did this all the time). The point is, they don't want to go on the road, and face tough competition, in the other team's house. They know what they will see, and that is why they pay money to have them at home.

Now...again if we start winning a bunch of games, and become contenders like a Gonzaga or a Creighton, when we are good year in and year out, teams will be willing to schedule that.

Coach, these statements seem contradictory to me. On one hand, big time teams won't travel to play tough competition. On the other hand, when we build our program back to where it belongs and start winning year in and year out, teams will be willing to come.

I do know that Dana Altman whines a lot about not being able to get top teams to come to Omaha to play, now that Creighton is good. Wonder if he'll put up and be willing to schedule a 2-for-1 with us?

[filbert]

Re: Big time home games???

[quote author=da coach link=1164940925/0#7 date=1164998698]
It's a great book, but these big time programs won't come here against solid competition. If they travel, like filbert said, it's because they have a senior player from that area (Dean Smith did this all the time). The point is, they don't want to go on the road, and face tough competition, in the other team's house. They know what they will see, and that is why they pay money to have them at home.

Now...again if we start winning a bunch of games, and become contenders like a Gonzaga or a Creighton, when we are good year in and year out, teams will be willing to schedule that.

Coach, these statements seem contradictory to me. On one hand, big time teams won't travel to play tough competition. On the other hand, when we build our program back to where it belongs and start winning year in and year out, teams will be willing to come.

I do know that Dana Altman whines a lot about not being able to get top teams to come to Omaha to play, now that Creighton is good. Wonder if he'll put up and be willing to schedule a 2-for-1 with us?[/quote]

If I may . . . it's all about the RPI.

Big-name schools don't get enough of a bump in their RPI by going on the road and beating a sub-100 RPI team, to make the risk of getting upset pay off--even with the NCAA lately jiggering the formula to make road wins more important. If SDSU ever gets consistently north of an RPI number of 50, you might start seeing some of those games in Frost.

[da_coach]

Re: Big time home games???

yes, filbert has it again.

they don't want to play tough teams. However, if they play a tough team that is ranked higher...with a better rpi, if you lose, it doesn't hurt you as much.

Creighton, I would think, has to be able to draw some bigger schools, and will continue to draw more with continued success?

(I'm not sure, I'm not all that familiar with Creighton, but I do cheer for them in March)

I do agree it sounds confusing.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Big time home games???

I'm definitely not a Creighton fan either, but there is an Omaha lovefest with Creighton BB that's hard to avoid. Here's their home non-conference schedule for this year:

Mississippi Valley State
George Mason
Arkansas Pine Bluff
Xavier
ESPN Bracketbuster (TBD)

I'm sure we'd be happy getting most any of these teams to Brookings, but I'm sure CU is hoping for more major-conference schools.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Big time home games???

"Marquette won their national title in 1977. So if they had players that played against USD in 68 they would have been in their late twenties by the championship season. USD did played Texas Western during their championship season in 66, but that game was not in Verminville."

Should have checked the national championship reference at the door. When it occured I had already moved to Georgia and then to Missouri. Some things you do remember vividly and one was that game which did occur in 1968 (or December 67--the following year I was in Oklahoma). I was living in a squalid little one room apartment a block off the Marquette campus. I remember listening to the radio, you remember certain things specifically when you're in your early twenties that get lost as the decades pile up.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Big time home games???

From Duane Clodfelter death tribute. I'm sure "hosted" in this case refers to only Marquette. I suspect that was the only major D-1 program that hit Vermillion in those years, although I remember seeing North Texas State (now University of North Texas) in Brookings.

I think this clip should illustrate just how far down the North Central and DII basketball has come since the sixties. Further proof that SDSU made the right decision to go DI when they did. All of these games were counters if I remember correctly.

http://www.vermillionsd.net/stories/...60427001.shtml

"Clodfelter coached the Coyote teams for more than a decade, bringing home the school's only national basketball championship in 1958. As a way to prepare his squads, he loaded up his schedule with some of the best major-college teams in the nation.

Clodfelter's teams traveled and hosted Division I basketball powers, including Marquette, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Minnesota, Creighton, Drake, Oklahoma, Illinois, Cincinnati and Bradley. During the early 1960s, USD played then-defending national champion Loyola-Chicago on the road. On another occasion, the team played eventual champion Texas Western in 1965-66 earning the Coyotes a mention in the current movie Glory Road."