Summit League Postseason Awards

[91jack]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

I look at most leaders and I think they have experience. There are some teams that don't have senior leaders but most do(at the Mid-Major level).
Siena and Sad Diego made it to the tourney without many seniors.
Most of the other Mid-Majors are senior orientated teams.
1) Butler- 3 of top 4 are seniors.
2) Oral Roberts- About all seniors and juniors.
3) Western Kentucky- Top 2 and 3 of top 4 are seniors.
4) Davidson- Their top players is a sophomore but their 2nd-4th best players are seniors.
5) George Mason- Their top 4 players are 2-juniors and 2-seniors.
The Majors get great freshmen that make a difference right away.
SDSU is an improving (young) team. I think most of us would say that this team is the best team SDSU has had since they went D-I. They should be better next year. The year after that we will see where SDSU is really at.
I guess we see improvement and just want more. Patience isn't an easy thing. SDSU has had 4 years to get better. I think the 1st 2 years, were wasted years. The players that came here left for various reasons. I don't see many players leaving anymore.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

I guess we see improvement and just want more. Patience isn't an easy thing. SDSU has had 4 years to get better. I think the 1st 2 years, were wasted years. The players that came here left for various reasons. I don't see many players leaving anymore.

When we entered the D-I ranks, we had just lost key starters to graduation, and and another remaining experienced player (Andy Moeller) decided to stay in D-II for his senior year, and transferred. I don't know that Coach Nagy would admit in hindsight, but I think the difference in NDSU's relatively better success, was in how both schools began the transition. The Bison recruited five good freshmen and redshirted them. They also had more returning players, which enabled them to do that, and they beat us that first year down in Florida. In addtion, they put together relatively mild seasons in who they played the first couple of years.

Coach Nagy put together some very ambitious seasons for a newcomer to D-I in our first two years, based, I think on the idea that we needed to play the best to learn how to be the best. I believe, in retrospect, that we got hurt in the process, as the grind on the team was horrendous and losing big began to form a culture of losing.

NDSU had four fourth-year juniors leading this year's team, while we were starting two freshmen and two sophomores. I don't believe we are very far behind the Bison, and won't be behind at all after next year, but I do believe this scenario contributed to our current situation.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

When we entered the D-I ranks, we had just lost key starters to graduation, and and another remaining experienced player (Andy Moeller) decided to stay in D-II for his senior year, and transferred. I don't know that Coach Nagy would admit in hindsight, but I think the difference in NDSU's relatively better success, was in how both schools began the transition. The Bison recruited five good freshmen and redshirted them. They also had more returning players, which enabled them to do that, and they beat us that first year down in Florida. In addtion, they put together relatively mild seasons in who they played the first couple of years.

Coach Nagy put together some very ambitious seasons for a newcomer to D-I in our first two years, based, I think on the idea that we needed to play the best to learn how to be the best. I believe, in retrospect, that we got hurt in the process, as the grind on the team was horrendous and losing big began to form a culture of losing.

NDSU had four fourth-year juniors leading this year's team, while we were starting two freshmen and two sophomores. I don't believe we are very far behind the Bison, and won't be behind at all after next year, but I do believe this scenario contributed to our current situation.

I agree, and looking ahead two years I think we could very easily be ahead of them. They will lose Woodside, Winkleman, Nelson, and Moorman to graduation after next year while our only loss will be Mackenzie Casey. We will have Callahan, Williams, Engen, and Anthony Davis as seniors and Sargent, Moss, Cordova, and Palarca as juniors to go along with Griffan Callahan, James Radar, Josh Cassady as sophomores. Add in the two Madison recruits Fiegen and White (who will hopefully have an option to be red-shirted) and another recruit or two along the way and I think we could be back in business again.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

You guys do realize that Saul is recruiting good players and we have others like Tveidt, Coleman, Vaughan, and Carlson waiting in the wings. Not saying you won't catch up but I wouldn't start banking on NDSU falling apart.

In 2009-10 we will be starting at least 3 upperclassmen.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

You guys do realize that Saul is recruiting good players and we have others like Tveidt, Coleman, Vaughan, and Carlson waiting in the wings. Not saying you won't catch up but I wouldn't start banking on NDSU falling apart.

In 2009-10 we will be starting at least 3 upperclassmen.

I, for one, certainly don't underestimate the ability of the Bison to reload...I'm just saying to our posters that I think we will once again be very competitive with the Bison in the near future.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

You guys do realize that Saul is recruiting good players and we have others like Tveidt, Coleman, Vaughan, and Carlson waiting in the wings. Not saying you won't catch up but I wouldn't start banking on NDSU falling apart.

In 2009-10 we will be starting at least 3 upperclassmen.

Yeah I do realize that, and I guess I didn't mean to discount or belittle your recruiting classes. Fact remains that you will lose 2 first team all-conference players after next year while we won't. Not saying you won't have guys who can step in to replace them, just saying they will be big shoes to fill, just as replacing Andre Smith was this season.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

Yeah I do realize that, and I guess I didn't mean to discount or belittle your recruiting classes. Fact remains that you will lose 2 first team all-conference players after next year while we won't. Not saying you won't have guys who can step in to replace them, just saying they will be big shoes to fill, just as replacing Andre Smith was this season.

I'm just saying 2009-2010 is a long ways out. Players like Vaughan, Tveidt, Sussenguth, and Coleman will have seen a lot of playing time by then. This isn't like Andre where we had nobody with any experience to step in. Saul is also out searching the country for a JUCO, if and who he finds could also change things for 2009-2010.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

I'm just saying 2009-2010 is a long ways out. Players like Vaughan, Tveidt, Sussenguth, and Coleman will have seen a lot of playing time by then. This isn't like Andre where we had nobody with any experience to step in. Saul is also out searching the country for a JUCO, if and who he finds could also change things for 2009-2010.

I think what Jack-02 is trying to say is that after 2009-10, the parity between the two programs will be much less than its been in the past. You have to give Saul Phillips credit, he is a good coach and probably a very good recruiter. I think SDSU will not be losing 9 games by 10 pts or less as they had this year and certainly, SDSU will be much more competitive. Granted this year's Bison played as well as ever without Andre Smith, but between Nelson, Winkleman and Woodside, you have a ton of good offense and defense both. Replacing three aces might be harder than replacing one, namely Andre Smith.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

You mean there will be more parity, right? That I agree with, I don't expect SDSU to be a Summit League cellar dweller for much longer. I'm also not saying NDSU is going to be the favorite to win the league in 2009-2010, just that the Bison won't fall off the face of the Earth. Going into this season I was very worried about beyond next year but after seeing some serious growth out of our redshirt Freshmen and Sophomores I think we'll be competitive. Honestly, in 2009-2010 the Summit League is going to be wide open. Oakland loses Nelson and Jones, IUPUI loses Hill, ORU loses Jarvis and Lewis, and as mentioned before NDSU loses Woodside, Nelson and Winkleman. NDSU won't be the only team in transition.

With that said, next year is going to be a lot of fun. With all the talent coming back the Summit could be a top 15 conference.

[91jack]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

I think that SDSU is closing the gap on NDSU. NDSU was 4 games worse this year, while SDSU was 2 games better. Next year will be NDSU last with their "best class ever". They will leave after that and SDSU will be getting better. I know that NDSU will get good players but maybe not that many in 1 year for a while. I don't see NDSU redshirting great players again unless it's next year. After that, NDSU will need to play their best players. That 1st year, they held them all out aiming for next year.
Did NDSU miss Smith that much or are NDSU and SDSU playing better competition this year? Maybe that's why SDSU didn't improve that much record wise. I think both teams will be in the top half of the Summit league in a few years.
FargoBison- I'm not writing this to piss you off. I just think that NDSU redshirting your junior class put them way up on SDSU. I'm a firm believer that sitting out a year helps. I don't see NDSU doing that again with players that are that talented. On the other hand, SDSU will get some players in all the classes so they don't have to start true freshmen. People say that they aren't freshmen at this point of the season. Regardless of what class they are, NDSU's(and other teams) players are 3 years older.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

I think that SDSU is closing the gap on NDSU. NDSU was 4 games worse this year, while SDSU was 2 games better. Next year will be NDSU last with their "best class ever". They will leave after that and SDSU will be getting better. I know that NDSU will get good players but maybe not that many in 1 year for a while. I don't see NDSU redshirting great players again unless it's next year. After that, NDSU will need to play their best players. That 1st year, they held them all out aiming for next year.
Did NDSU miss Smith that much or are NDSU and SDSU playing better competition this year? Maybe that's why SDSU didn't improve that much record wise. I think both teams will be in the top half of the Summit league in a few years.
FargoBison- I'm not writing this to piss you off. I just think that NDSU redshirting your junior class put them way up on SDSU. I'm a firm believer that sitting out a year helps. I don't see NDSU doing that again with players that are that talented. On the other hand, SDSU will get some players in all the classes so they don't have to start true freshmen. People say that they aren't freshmen at this point of the season. Regardless of what class they are, NDSU's(and other teams) players are 3 years older.

For 2009-2010 NDSU will have 5 upperclassmen, 1 redshirt sophomore, 1 redshirt freshman or sophmore, and at least one JUCO. So if sitting out a year helps, NDSU will have 6 or 7 guys who have all redshirted one season. NDSU may very well not start any true freshmen. I do agree that great players we recruit won't always redshirt but they also won't exactly be forced into having to play.

Also losing Smith hurt us, the competition was better but not having one power forward on your roster isn't a good thing. Every time we went up against a team with a true 4 we were at a disadvantage and that is why Saul is out searching the country for a JUCO power forward.

[91jack]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

Thanks!
I knew that Tweidt redshirted but I didn't know that NDSU is still doing that with most of their players. I guess with your junior class, you have players that are solid at most of the positions. The players behind them could sit out and mature a year.
We'll have to wait to see who else they bring in. Those 8 could a core to build around but I think you'll play more players than that. Will Saul get more juco's or play some younger players?

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

We will play at least one true freshman in 2009-2010. Saul landed a pg out of Wisconsin and as of now we only have one pg(Vaughan). The recruit is Nate Zastrow and he is a top 5 player in Wisconsin and had an offer from UW-Milwaukee. Saul likes the kid a lot and he fits the mold of a score first pg that we will need.

Saul has already said that our other recruit for that class will redshirt. The recruit is Jordan Aaberg out of Rothsay, MN. He is 6'9 and still growing and will need a year to add muscle. After that I'd say Saul adds a JUCO guard and two high school kids. There are three offers out right now but there is a lot of competition for each recruit.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

I think that SDSU is closing the gap on NDSU. NDSU was 4 games worse this year, while SDSU was 2 games better. Next year will be NDSU last with their "best class ever". They will leave after that and SDSU will be getting better. I know that NDSU will get good players but maybe not that many in 1 year for a while. I don't see NDSU redshirting great players again unless it's next year. After that, NDSU will need to play their best players. That 1st year, they held them all out aiming for next year.
Did NDSU miss Smith that much or are NDSU and SDSU playing better competition this year? Maybe that's why SDSU didn't improve that much record wise. I think both teams will be in the top half of the Summit league in a few years.
FargoBison- I'm not writing this to piss you off. I just think that NDSU redshirting your junior class put them way up on SDSU. I'm a firm believer that sitting out a year helps. I don't see NDSU doing that again with players that are that talented. On the other hand, SDSU will get some players in all the classes so they don't have to start true freshmen. People say that they aren't freshmen at this point of the season. Regardless of what class they are, NDSU's(and other teams) players are 3 years older.

If you want to compare the teams we played last year vs. this year we could compare our strength of schedule. I am sure there is a site somewhere that would tell out strength of schedule from year to year. That would be a good indicator to tell us if we are getting better and the schedule is just stronger leading to fewer wins.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League Postseason Awards

If you want to compare the teams we played last year vs. this year we could compare our strength of schedule. I am sure there is a site somewhere that would tell out strength of schedule from year to year. That would be a good indicator to tell us if we are getting better and the schedule is just stronger leading to fewer wins.

Here is SDSU's SOS for the past two years...
06-07 SOS was 309
07-08 SOS was 300


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