Conf. Strength - for the record

[89rabbit]

Recently I have been reading on the board how the Summit League is one of the "worst conferences" in D-I. The poster in question certainly is entitled to their opinion and could be using any number of criteria to come to this conclusion.

However, it seems to me the most commonly used measure is the RPI. If you in fact use this system it seems that the conference that SDSU plays in is far from the worst.

Here are a list of conferences (in order) rated below the Summit League:

Northeast
Ivy League
Big Sky
American East
Big South
Atlantic Sun
Ohio Valley
Mid-Eastern
Independents
SWAC

So although the Summit is not the ACC, Pac 10, or Big 12 we are also not the SWAC, Independent, or Mid-Eastern. So I believe it is hard to make the argument that the Summit League is the “worst” or even “one of the worst” NCAA D-I Men’s Basketball conferences.

I thought we might like some facts instead of opinion, just for the record.

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weekly...08MBBrpi1.html

http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2008


Go State!

[22jack]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

It's better than the Big Sky, the conference that we wanted to get in at first.

[BTownJack]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

Thank you 89Rabbit...I was also miffed about the same comment made about the Summit League. I'd give you rep points but I can't since I recently already did. While it isn't the best of conferences I'd say it is a great home for us being a young D-I school. And it is far from "one of the worst." And with a fairly new conference commisioner, Tom Douple, I'm confident that things are only going to get better for the Summit League. Changing the name and setting minimums for basketball assistants is a step in the right direction.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

I made a comment about the Summit League at one point when discussing our record after starting our conference play. I agree the Summit is far from one of the worst in the country (although pointing out the conferences below us doesn't really help me come to that conclusion - I had not even heard of the American East conference and the Ivy league is non-scholarship). In fact, it is so much better than the NCC, even in its hay day, that most can not grasp the difference. The diff from great DII basketball and average-good D1 basketball is night and day. We're experiencing that the hard way.

Having said that, it still is a cause for concern that we went 3-15 in the Summit this year. To be relevant in mens basketball, just relevant, we need to be in the top half of a league like the Summit. I think most would agree with me on that, right?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

I made a comment about the Summit League at one point when discussing our record after starting our conference play. I agree the Summit is far from one of the worst in the country (although pointing out the conferences below us doesn't really help me come to that conclusion - I had not even heard of the American East conference and the Ivy league is non-scholarship). In fact, it is so much better than the NCC, even in its hay day, that most can not grasp the difference. The diff from great DII basketball and average-good D1 basketball is night and day. We're experiencing that the hard way.

Having said that, it still is a cause for concern that we went 3-15 in the Summit this year. To be relevant in mens basketball, just relevant, we need to be in the top half of a league like the Summit. I think most would agree with me on that, right?

Absolutely agree.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

And so round and round it goes! Some posters repeat that our freshmen aren't freshmen when they have played a season. Well, sure it is true. But the teams who are starting seniors and juniors...they aren't freshmen (or sophomors) any more either. And if you don't believe playing four years makes you a better player than when you started, then we should just start all sopomores (who aren't freshmen anymore) and start over at that point every year!

And I've seen repeated posts about whether the players we recruit are good enough. Next year we will have one senior and two juniors (of those who play any amount of time). That's still a year away from a veteran team, and I don't believe we will honestly know just where our recruiting level is.

I would point out again (as I did on another thread) that we don't have any scholarships to give until 2010 (yes, and I know maybe one will open up), so y'all might as well cool your jets through at least next year when we are looking for our 2011 freshmen, as we are going to have to basically win with who we have.

Finally, I agree with another post about our current players: how did we win 8 games and lose 9 games by six or less points, and not be fairly competitive in those 17 games? I'm for letting this season go (for both optimists and pessimists) and letting next season give us some of the answers we are all searching for.

[Nidaros]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

Finally, I agree with another post about our current players: how did we win 8 games and lose 9 games by six or less points, and not be fairly competitive in those 17 games? I'm for letting this season go (for both optimists and pessimists) and letting next season give us some of the answers we are all searching for.

That question has been on my mind too. Maybe the 9 could have been wins, or they could have been absolute blow outs, which they were not. Just watching the Summit final tonight it occurred to me that we saw two very good programs(ORU and IUPUI) play at Frost. To me those programs were the bench mark of where we need to go. We may not be there yet by any means, but I think every effort is being made to get there. I think our guys did not give up even though they were often outclassed. I dont think we can take the heart and effort away from our very young guys. I tend to believe the glass is half full, and lets bring on next season. Onward and Upward.

[wabbit]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

It doesn't hurt that our Conf. Strength doesn't include us in the ratings.
We are considered by the NCAA as a Div I ind. so I doubt that our less than stellar record figures into the Conf. ratings.

[NorCalJack]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

It doesn't hurt that our Conf. Strength doesn't include us in the ratings.
We are considered by the NCAA as a Div I ind. so I doubt that our less than stellar record figures into the Conf. ratings.

Well 89Rabbit listed two websites. One was the Pomeroy website that also includes a summary of rankings by conference. It shows the Summit as the 22nd rated conference. If you click on the word "Summit" it lists all of the teams in the conference and SDSU and NDSU are listed and therefore they are included in the ranking.

The other link is the NCAA RPI ranking, which does not have a summary by conference. SDSU and NDSU are listed as D-1 Independence. I then cut and pasted the raw data into Excel. I then changed SDSU and NDSU designation from D-1 Independent to Summit League. From there you can sort the data by conference and then average the RPI by conference. After that I sorted the averages and the Summit League still ended up as the 22nd ranked conference.

Here is a summary of how the conferences ranked by averaging the RPI ranking.

Rank   Conference     Ave. RPI for Conference
   1.    ACC                  63.80
   2.    Big 12               70.75
   3.    Pac-10               71.50
   4.    Big East             78.75
   5.    SEC                  79.75
   6.    Big-10               99.09
   7.    Atlantic-10         106.93
   8.    Missouri Valley     108.80
   9.    Mountain West       125.11
  10.    Conf. USA           144.33
  11.    Horizon             146.20
  12.    Patriot             163.11
  13.    Mid-American        169.83
  14.    Colonial            175.75
  15.    West Coast          178.13
  16.    Sun Belt            184.38
  17.    Metro Atlantic      186.20
  18.    Southland           188.09
  19.    Big West            189.78
  20.    WAC                 192.56
  21.    Southern            194.18
  22.    Summit League       211.80
  23.    Atlantic Sun        212.00
  24.    Northeast           216.91
  25.    Ivy League          222.91
  26     American East       224.33
  27.    Big Sky             226.44
  28.    Big South           240.75
  29.    Ohio Valley         245.45
  30.    Mid-Eastern         247.45
  31.    Southwestern        292.10
  32.    Independent         295.47

The nice thing is, I don't see SDSU finishing 329th in the RPI next year. SDSU and NDSU should be better next year and this will only help in the rise of the Summit League. Hope this helps clarify your misinterpretation of the data.

Go State!!!
Go Jacks!!!

[wabbit]

Re: Conf. Strength - for the record

I stand corrected. Ty for the clearing that up.