Senior Night Saturday Night!

[Jack4Life]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

I took off early. It was just hard to watch. Very disappointing evening with senior night and all. Best of luck to the seniors and thank you for your hard work these past years. When next year comes around, I am sure I will be waiting to get back to the Frost. See you Monday night for the ORU game.

[Nidaros]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

Thanks to the seniors for their career efforts, Ben Beran past Derrick Schantz by 2 for career total. Beran career total was 1285 I believe. Good old Schantz's had 1283 what a guy who would have had many more points, but struggled at the FT line. So if thats a positive amongst the negatives, then that is it meaning Ben moving past Schantz. Ben had to work very hard to get 12 points.

It was interesting to see Centenary play. They have a number of small players who are very good. We squandered a number of opportunities, and Cordova even help the Gents with a ft tip in. Ouch thats a hard one to watch, it was for me. Next year is what we need to look to, this year is mercifully in the record books.

[JackFan96]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

Thanks to the seniors for their career efforts, Ben Beran past Derrick Schantz by 2 for career total. Beran career total was 1285 I believe. Good old Schantz's had 1283 what a guy who would have had many more points, but struggled at the FT line. So if thats a positive amongst the negatives, then that is it meaning Ben moving past Schantz. Ben had to work very hard to get 12 points.

It was interesting to see Centenary play. They have a number of small players who are very good. We squandered a number of opportunities, and Cordova even help the Gents with a ft tip in. Ouch thats a hard one to watch, it was for me. Next year is what we need to look to, this year is mercifully in the record books.

Rebounds are to be grabbed with two hands ... not fingertips. It wasn't intentional, I know, but ... jeez.

[JackFan96]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

just got home from the game. it was nothing less than painful. Scott said in the postgame interview that we need to stay patient for 2 more years. SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH

I'll split the difference with him ... one more year of patience. I expect significant improvement next year. And I mean significant improvement in the win column. As I've said before, I don't mean a conference title. I'm not unrealistic. But I expect something close to the middle of the pack.

It's hard to see us be dead last in ... ug, I'm sorry, but a bad DI conference. Now, I do realize it's much harder making the jump in men's basketball than in any other sport. But this year was not what I had in mind. And we may as well brace ourselves (if we want to look ahead) to be picked to finished last in next year's preseason polls. There's no reason to act indignant when it happens because it all but certainly will. If we don't qualify for the conference tournament ... well, it just won't be acceptable to me. (Not that that means anything. It certainly doesn't.)

One more year of patience. I fear that's all I have left.

[jackmd]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

Back from the game.

That was, pardon my french, one god-awful, piss-poor display of bad basketball by the Jackrabbits tonight..

I promised I wouldn't say anything bad. My 4 year old "crashed" secondary to illness and being the great dad I am I volunteered to take her to grandmas with about 6 minutes remaining in the game. That and what Filbert said pretty well sums things up.

Waiting for the optimistic spin on this one.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

I promised I wouldn't say anything bad. My 4 year old "crashed" secondary to illness and being the great dad I am I volunteered to take her to grandmas with about 6 minutes remaining in the game. That and what Filbert said pretty well sums things up.

Waiting for the optimistic spin on this one.

Well, there's very little "optimistic spin" from the end of a frustrating season (for fans, yeh, but just as certainly for coaches and players). But I'll take the bait and provide my last comments on SDSU men's basketball for this season. Call it optimistic, I call it realistic. So everybody's mad (and hell, yes, I'm disappointed), but I didn't see anything different last night than what has been going on all season...nor anything that changes the facts. There are two choices for fans...including those on this board. Believe that: 1) We need to change coaches now. 2) We have to change players, because we aren't recruiting good enough players to play at this level. 3) We have to be patient and supportive through next year.

Actually, choices 1 and 2 aren't choices IMHO. We have the players we will have through the 2009 season. I said earlier, and believe it, that there will not be a coaching change right now. If you accept those two statements, then you are left with Choice #3.

I'm not going to condemn or defend the current coaching staff. But I don't believe, personally, that's important. If you believe we don't have good enough recruits, and we can't wait until the end of next season, we need to pull back our verbal commitments to the 2009 recruits and go out and find coaches and see what happens, if you are right. If you feel we have the players, but the coaches can't coach, then you need to be for a change right now (the last time I looked, I didn't see the coaches in the stats box on turnovers, making points...even at times for the other team...or free throws.

I'm taking choice #3, and will let next season play out as to whether we are making enough progress that I think we are on the right track.

As for Saturday's game, I'll pose a question to all of you: At the end of the game, in crunch time when they needed to score, Centenary went to Nick Stallings, junior guard (who scored 22 points and was 6-7 from the charity stripe), and Tyrone Hamilton, junior guard (who had 17 points). When we needed points, we had to look to a 6-4 freshman guard to get the crucial end of game points. And at least to jog your memories, I will remind you of last year, down the stretch, when we had to rely on a freshman in the same position and couldn't get it done, and you all know Matt Cadwell was burned out and couldn't produce.

Constant losing, and especially losing so many close ones, wears a team out. And all we have for depth, in providing relief, are more underclassmen. That's just where we are. I feel more concern for the players and the coaches, than I do for my own feelings. I prefer to remember that we have only one senior on the squad next year, and we will gain our first juniors out of the last two recruiting seasons (and one JC transfer) next fall.

If that's optimistic spin, so be it.

[1bunnies]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

Well, there's very little "optimistic spin" from the end of a frustrating season (for fans, yeh, but just as certainly for coaches and players). But I'll take the bait and provide my last comments on SDSU men's basketball for this season. Call it optimistic, I call it realistic. So everybody's mad (and hell, yes, I'm disappointed), but I didn't see anything different last night than what has been going on all season...nor anything that changes the facts. There are two choices for fans...including those on this board. Believe that: 1) We need to change coaches now. 2) We have to change players, because we aren't recruiting good enough players to play at this level. 3) We have to be patient and supportive through next year.

Actually, choices 1 and 2 aren't choices IMHO. We have the players we will have through the 2009 season. I said earlier, and believe it, that there will not be a coaching change right now. If you accept those two statements, then you are left with Choice #3.

I'm not going to condemn or defend the current coaching staff. But I don't believe, personally, that's important. If you believe we don't have good enough recruits, and we can't wait until the end of next season, we need to pull back our verbal commitments to the 2009 recruits and go out and find coaches and see what happens, if you are right. If you feel we have the players, but the coaches can't coach, then you need to be for a change right now (the last time I looked, I didn't see the coaches in the stats box on turnovers, making points...even at times for the other team...or free throws.

I'm taking choice #3, and will let next season play out as to whether we are making enough progress that I think we are on the right track.

As for Saturday's game, I'll pose a question to all of you: At the end of the game, in crunch time when they needed to score, Centenary went to Nick Stallings, junior guard (who scored 22 points and was 6-7 from the charity stripe), and Tyrone Hamilton, junior guard (who had 17 points). When we needed points, we had to look to a 6-4 freshman guard to get the crucial end of game points. And at least to jog your memories, I will remind you of last year, down the stretch, when we had to rely on a freshman in the same position and couldn't get it done, and you all know Matt Cadwell was burned out and couldn't produce.

Constant losing, and especially losing so many close ones, wears a team out. And all we have for depth, in providing relief, are more underclassmen. That's just where we are. I feel more concern for the players and the coaches, than I do for my own feelings. I prefer to remember that we have only one senior on the squad next year, and we will gain our first juniors out of the last two recruiting seasons (and one JC transfer) next fall.

If that's optimistic spin, so be it.

I with you on this Jacks#1. I choose number 3 also. Most of the posters on this board that are impatient and want a complete overall now, are the sames ones that wanted Stig out in the fall of 06. Those same posters were wanting Stig to be named National Coach of the Year in 07. IMHO they are impatient, always will be, and that they will not change. Can't wait until next season. If we would have won ten games by less than six points, they would all be happy.

[Nidaros]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

There are two choices for fans...including those on this board. Believe that: 1) We need to change coaches now. 2) We have to change players, because we aren't recruiting good enough players to play at this level. 3) We have to be patient and supportive through next year.

Actually, choices 1 and 2 aren't choices IMHO. We have the players we will have through the 2009 season. I said earlier, and believe it, that there will not be a coaching change right now. If you accept those two statements, then you are left with Choice #3.

I'm not going to condemn or defend the current coaching staff. But I don't believe, personally, that's important. If you believe we don't have good enough recruits, and we can't wait until the end of next season, we need to pull back our verbal commitments to the 2009 recruits and go out and find coaches and see what happens, if you are right. If you feel we have the players, but the coaches can't coach, then you need to be for a change right now (the last time I looked, I didn't see the coaches in the stats box on turnovers, making points...even at times for the other team...or free throws.

I'm taking choice #3, and will let next season play out as to whether we are making enough progress that I think we are on the right track.

I with you Jack#1fan with choice three, but any reference I have made to recruiting applies to when Callahan and Williams have played their last game. I am speaking more like 3 or more years down the road, and by then maybe these good things will happen.

The two mentioned are in my mind just the start of D1 program. They can do so much. As far as pulling verbal commitments that's about the worst thing we could do. I would like to see quicker, taller and more beefy players, but that will come with time. Even Centenary is not a pushover based on what I saw. Gee my first impression was they have a bunch of runts here, but they kind of took that image away in a hurry.


I think too many coaching changes in a short period of time can destroy any athletic program. Sometimes making that change a new coach inherits a great program, i.e years ago now, but when Boots took Noel Martain's place there were several good sophomores to build a good program. With the $$$$ in D1 I am not sure it is easier to make changes as it was at the D2 level especially with single year contracts. Now at a higher level, we need friends and boosters to help out with higher salaries and multi-year contracts. I know we discussed this before but apparently by statute and policy, one year contracts are still the name of game. Trying to hire a replacement for the current coach may not be very easy at all. I think we best not rock the boat on this issue or recruiting.

[jackmd]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

I with you on this Jacks#1. I choose number 3 also. Most of the posters on this board that are impatient and want a complete overall now, are the sames ones that wanted Stig out in the fall of 06. Those same posters were wanting Stig to be named National Coach of the Year in 07. IMHO they are impatient, always will be, and that they will not change. Can't wait until next season. If we would have won ten games by less than six points, they would all be happy.

Excellent points by both 1's. Nothing posted changes what this year has been and hoping that things will be better is just that. You can call it impatient or pessimistic or I could challenge you and say the true realistic view is that things are probably going to be about the same next year as they were this year and last year and the year before. I'm not about to do that because I know you already understand that. I trust you realize that I also understand every point made in #1's post. I also know #1 is an exceptional fan (take that for whatever its worth).

Nagy has expectations for this team next year, I don't think their much different from mine. Get better as a team, if that means 10 wins, well thats what it will mean. What I and lot of other people saw last night doesn't leave a lot to be desired, thats just a fact.

As for Stig, I'm glad he's still the coach. No way to know what might have happened with a change and personally I don't care. Life doesn't work that way and I'm well aware of that.

If things turn around and we finish in the middle of the conference I'll be as pleased as anyone. I'll also be surprised with that result. Based on what I witnessed at the end of this season, things should not be expected to be much better next year. Does that mean they won't be better. Heck no, in fact, I hope they will be better for exactly the reasons #1 and myself and others have pointed out.

All that said, I'm not about to go out and tell people we're on the brink of success. I think NDSU fans can say that about their men's program and the reason is a core of talent that exceeds or current core. Thats not intended as an insult to the current players and is along the same line of logic as several other posters here and many of the fans I discuss Jack's athletics with on a day-by-bay basis. Watching a contest between the 2 worse teams in the conference I though it was clear that they had more talent, not just experience or maturity they obviously had that, than we did. I'm not about to single out individual players nor do I think that means we can't beat teams. Its not only about athleticism or talent. The intangibles still mean a lot. I hope we can build on the latter and maximize the former.

Thanks for the positive thoughts. I've got them too. They just take a harder beating when things go as poorly has they have. I might be better off keeping things to myself but I think its important to have a certain balance. Being overly optimistic creates a certain imbalance in thought and can influence perceptions resulting ultimately in a negative outcome. We all want things to become more positive for our team. No doubt about that. Onward and hopefully upward.

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

We have to ask tough questions guys. Do we have the (returning) players? As of now I dont think so. Kai for sure, Garrett, Clint, Anthony - probably. Other that that who else would get minutes on another Div I team. Of the new recruits the JC sounds like he can play, but I would be surprised if he is better than Ben. Radar at best will help down the road. We need help. Either scholarships come open and we add some players or our future looks much like the same. IMHO>

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

I think experience at the low/mid-major level is very important. You look at the teams that are playing well.....they have senior leaders, most of the time that are guards and have the ball in their hands at the end of the game. Younger players tend to play scared at the end of the game and just haven't had enough experience to be able to make big plays under pressure.

Our big two Kai and Garrett will be experience and hopefully better able handle late game situations and turn close losses into win. Let's hope this is what is going to happen.

OPTIMISM>>>>>>>>>GO JACKS>

[JimmyJack]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

We have to ask tough questions guys. Do we have the (returning) players? As of now I dont think so. Kai for sure, Garrett, Clint, Anthony - probably. Other that that who else would get minutes on another Div I team. Of the new recruits the JC sounds like he can play, but I would be surprised if he is better than Ben. Radar at best will help down the road. We need help. Either scholarships come open and we add some players or our future looks much like the same. IMHO>

I guess I see Dale Moss and Mike Palarca as solid D1 players, at least down the road, certainly as good as most any freshmen I saw in the league. Palarca showed us a few things this year as a defensive stopper who can create a shot now and then. I'd say he played pretty well for a 5'7" true freshman who's pretty far from home. Dale Moss is closer to home, but there's no doubt he's got the athletic ability and anyone who didn't see him progress this year isn't looking for the right things. Nagy says Moss was rarely anything other than the best athlete on the floor when he was playing, and I saw enough to agree with that. You really think Moss wouldn't get minutes on other Summit teams? I think he would.

Don't forget Griffan Callahan. Bigger version of his brother, I'm told, and that sounds good to me. And, oh yeah, Josh Cassaday. Should be a good backup for Kai Williams. We didn't get to see much from him due to his injury, but I have no reason to doubt his status as a D1 player.

So, let's review: You concede that Garrett Callahan, Kai Williams, Anthony Cordova and Clint Sargent are true D1 players. I'm suggesting that Dale Moss and Mike Palarca showed us enough to suggest they are, too. And we can look forward to getting to know another Callahan and in Josh Cassaday we get a player Coach Nagy was very high on before his injury. Then we've got Davis from the JuCo ranks coming in.

I count six good young players that we know can play, one who would have played but for an injury, and three new players who look like solid recruits (including Rader, a very good all-around player who might be 6'8" before he gets here... he's averaging 18 points, 9 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, 1 steal and 2 assists per game in 4A Colorado basketball.)

Oh, yeah. Then we have Fiegen and White coming in in 2009. I haven't heard many questions about their ability. So what's the problem again?

Yes, we'll be young (again). But I have a lot of confidence in young men like Garrett and Kai (not to mention Mackenzie Casey) to provide leadership to the younger players and move everybody along.

[rabbit_boy]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

The problem I guess lies with me. I am frustrated amd am trying to be optimistic but am sick of excuses. I knw in my business we things go bad, me and my partners sit down and discuss every aspect of our operations. Palarca and Moss to me are question marks still. The 2009 recruits are still years away.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

Thank you, seniors Ben Beran, Michael Loney and Mohammed Berte. Ben surpassed two guys on the 1,000-point club list on Saturday night. He overtook Kurt Meister (1995-1998) and Darrick Schant (200-2004) to take over 11th place, just behind Dave Thomas. That's pretty darn good company. Beran and Loney, as four-year players, deserve special thanks for leading the Jacks though the transition.

[jackmd]

Re: Senior Night Saturday Night!

Thank you, seniors Ben Beran, Michael Loney and Mohammed Berte. Ben surpassed two guys on the 1,000-point club list on Saturday night. He overtook Kurt Meister (1995-1998) and Darrick Schant (200-2004) to take over 11th place, just behind Dave Thomas. That's pretty darn good company. Beran and Loney, as four-year players, deserve special thanks for leading the Jacks though the transition.

Agreed. I stood and cheered as loud as I could for each of those individuals. I think they felt honored. Thats something not everyone gets to experience.

As athletes they are subjected to certain things others aren't subjected to just the same as they get recognition or criticism that might be greater than it should be. Some want it both ways. This website exists primarily (or exclusively) because of athletics at the college level. What comes with the territory comes with the territory.