NJIT

[SD-STATE]

Re: NJIT

How does one rip a kid that's stuck it out for 4-5 years? The kid has shown alot of character and maturity. He has stuck with the team his whole career despite limited playing time and no shot at winning any team championships. Like has been said before, there are many ways a player can lead. My only question is when does a person stop questioning the players and start questioning the coaches? I'm not calling for Nagy's head, but he has stated that "he doesn't know" what's been wrong with this team lately. Maybe he should. I have yet to see a team that isn't a reflection of their coach and vice versa. The Morgenthaler and Larson connection is interesting, Kleinjan being the only one from the Morgenthaler era. How many have come and gone since Larson got here?

[jackmd]

Re: NJIT

Right now, we don't have enough quality, D1 players to compete every night.

I can't understand why more people can't recognize this. There is a lack of DI level talent on this team right now. Effort can make you better if you have equal talent. When you are undermanned (is that a word) and less talented its nearly impossible to win games regardless of your preparation or effort. That is the current problem. This team is less talented than many of our previous DII teams. That is just a simple fact. I don't understand how anyone could think these guys would win 12-15 games against DI teams. They don't have that kind of talent.

[NightHawk78]

Re: NJIT

I think it's important to realize that most of our current players were recruited when there was NO conference and NO guaranteed opportunity at a NCAA tournament bid. Until we got a Mid-Con invite, we had to rely mostly on D-II holdovers (Kleinjan, Loney, and Beran), projects (ex. Engen, Bassett), guys who were between D-I and D-II talentwise (ex. Frias, Casey), and players who fell under the radar of most D-I schools (ex. Kai, Cadwell).

As for players leaving, I think we just got hit by a "perfect storm" of events that managed to compound on one another. If our seniors can be faulted for anything, it is not taking enough lessons from the end of last season (when we easily could have packed up the tent) and helping our team pull out a few more close games this season. The statement would also apply to our coaching staff......I still think we have a bright future if we keep our core intact, but some of the games this year have been puzzling.......

99% of the reasons we are even having this conversation are because 1) NDSU managed to beat a couple Top 25 teams from Wisconsin, 2) our women's team is rewriting the manual on how to transition to D-I, and 3) we were very senior-heavy during our last year in the NCC and D-II and had to enter (what is now a constant) rebuilding mode.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: NJIT

How does one rip a kid that's stuck it out for 4-5 years? The kid has shown alot of character and maturity. He has stuck with the team his whole career despite limited playing time and no shot at winning any team championships. Like has been said before, there are many ways a player can lead. My only question is when does a person stop questioning the players and start questioning the coaches? I'm not calling for Nagy's head, but he has stated that "he doesn't know" what's been wrong with this team lately. Maybe he should. I have yet to see a team that isn't a reflection of their coach and vice versa. The Morgenthaler and Larson connection is interesting, Kleinjan being the only one from the Morgenthaler era. How many have come and gone since Larson got here?

I'm not sure this is any kind of shot at Troy Larson vs. Matt Margenthaler in recruiting, but I have heard some other comments about maybe we don't have as good a recruiter (assistant coach) as we had, and I want to respond to those comments.

Matt was a great guy and did a great job. But let's remember, he was recruiting D-II level ball players at a time when we were on the top of our game (three conference championships, etc.) Troy (and Scott of course) have been asked to recuit D-1 level athletes at a time when we had no conference, 20 road games a year, and nothing to reward players with at the end of the season.

Nobody questions that Steve Holdren was a D-1 recruit, or that Matt Cadwell, Andre Gilbert, Mike Loney, or Kai Williams or Garrett Callahan weren't pretty darn good considering all those odds. IMHO, we've got at least two conference seasons to get through before we should be trying to evaluate how good our recruits are and how good the coaches are doing. Add in Dale Moss and Clint Sargent, and Anthony Cordova, and Tom Bassett -- and I think we're going to find those recruits turn out to be good Mid-Con level players.

We don't have upper class leadership on a team, because we have a JUCO senior, and an injury-riddled senior who has had to ride the bench most of the time...it's not their fault, it's just what it is.

Probably time to drop this subject too...sorry Filbert.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: NJIT

I wasn't ripping on Andy and Jose as people, but I am bringing to light my opinion of their play. There were a lot of people on this board calling for Andy Kardoes' head when the FB team was 0-3. Now I make a comment about the seniors on this BB team and everyone thinks I am classless. Kardoes back was to the wall and willed the FB team to 3 wins in games they should not have won. There were four plays this FB season(probably the biggest 4 plays in the last 20 years of SDSU football) that were the difference between 4 wins and 7 wins (3 fourth down conversions and a two point conversion). Our football team was outmatched in games this season also. I have no doubt that Cal Poly, Cal Davis, and McNese St were more talented than us, but we had strong senior leadership. The most talented palyers don't win, the BEST TEAMS win. Those 3 wins may springboard our football program into a national power and new facilities.

I don't see this senior leadership from the hoopsters this season. Maybe I am expecting too much, but I was hoping the men's team would pull some wins that they shouldn't have. There were plenty of games that we had chance to win, but didn't make plays down the stretch of games (see Alabame A &M, Idaho (twice), Utah State, Central Florida, Utah Valley, Middle Tennessee, and NJIT). I am like everyone else on this board. I am frustrated by what has happened to our Men's Basketball Program. I want answers, but only have opinions. I think the world of Nagy and Larson. I think being in a conference will be huge and I look forward to this team winning a few more games this year and getting this program back to a winning record next season.

[Haldersham]

Re: NJIT

I wasn't ripping on Andy and Jose as people, but I am bringing to light my opinion of their play.  There were a lot of people on this board calling for Andy Kardoes' head when the FB team was 0-3.  Now I make a comment about the seniors on this BB team and everyone thinks I am classless.  Kardoes back was to the wall and willed the FB team to 3 wins in games they should not have won.  There were four plays this FB season(probably the biggest 4 plays in the last 20 years of SDSU football) that were the difference between 4 wins and 7 wins (3 fourth down conversions and a two point conversion).  Our football team was outmatched in games this season also.  I have no doubt that Cal Poly, Cal Davis, and McNese St were more talented than us, but we had strong senior leadership.  The most talented palyers don't win, the BEST TEAMS win.  Those 3 wins may springboard our football program into a national power and new facilities.  

I don't see this senior leadership from the hoopsters this season.  Maybe I am expecting too much, but I was hoping the men's team would pull some wins that they shouldn't have.  There were plenty of games that we had chance to win, but didn't make plays down the stretch of games (see Alabame A &M, Idaho (twice), Utah State, Central Florida, Utah Valley, Middle Tennessee, and NJIT).  I am like everyone else on this board.  I am frustrated by what has happened to our Men's Basketball Program.  I want answers, but only have opinions.  I think the world of Nagy and Larson.  I think being in a conference will be huge and I look forward to this team winning a few more games this year and getting this program back to a winning record next season.  

Sorry Gateway, but Andy and Jose are people, give them a break. I think as others have pointed out there is enough blame to go round for everyone connected to the program. We can only be like Chicago Cub fans and wait until next year. I dont think its helpful to rip any student athlete in any sport. If they are representing the school to the best of their ability, and are doing okay or better than okay in the classroom, what more can you ask?  A 13 and 18 win loss record is not a winning record and probably would be the record if we had pulled out the close ones, and since we are still in the reclassification period and have yet to play one season in the Mid Continent why get frustrated? If next year at this time, things don't look good in terms of competional progress, then maybe we have a reason to be concerned and possibly a right to be frustrated.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: NJIT

TIME TO MOVE ON!

His point was made, some of us object, some of us don't, and it's done!

Time to move on to something different.

SUPERBUNNY

[89rabbit]

Re: NJIT

How about Baseball? The Jackrabbits knocked off the Jayhawks from the University of Kansas early this morning! 8-)

http://www.sdsufans.com/cgi-bin/yabb...num=1170703327


Go State!

[rabbit_boy]

Re: NJIT

IMHO, we have two legit Div I starters in Kai and Caddy, Garret should get there. After that maybe a couple of bench players and projects and thats it. Half our roster would likely not make any other Div I team. The talent level has to improve.

[Haldersham]

Re: NJIT

TIME TO MOVE ON!

His point was made, some of us object, some of us don't, and it's done!

Time to move on to something different.

SUPERBUNNY

I agree.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: NJIT

[quote author=Jacked_Up link=1170602403/45#47 date=1170986521]Need a three-point bomber, too, a sweet-shooting guard to take pressure off Cadwell in clutch situations. Help appears to be on the way next season.

While our additions next year will help, I don't see a long range threat in the plans for next year.  Do you?[/quote]

I guess I was hoping that Sargent or Hoogeveen might have shooting skills. I confess that I don't know a lot about them. I understand that Moss to be more of a slasher type. The Jacks might end up missing Cam Hornby after all.

[mitchell2006]

Re: NJIT

Reading articles on Sargent it seems that he is a good shooter. He always has a high percentage both from the field and from the free throw line. If you ever watch callahan in shoot arounds he hardly misses any 3-ball shots, so hopefully he has a good shot he just needs to transfer it into the game. I would think that PG would probally be the toughest position to play as a true freshman and callahan has shown a lot of bright spots but has been inconsistent this year, I think he will be a good offensive threat in the years to come.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: NJIT

I agree Sargent seems to be a quality shooter.  I did have the opportunity to speak with a coach from Heelan a while back and they said that his strength is really in the mid range game.  He is a good sized kid for a Senior in high school, and it looks like he gets to the line a ton.  I see him being a Steve Holdren type player while here at SDSU...can shoot the three, but is better as a jump shooter going to the hole.  It seems like vantage has a good interest in Sargent, maybe he/she can provide some insight here.

Dale Moss to me is definately a slasher, I don't know how strong his outside shot is.  Nagy said on a radio interview a couple weeks ago that they are counting on him coming in to be a defensive stopper.  He said that with Dale's athletic ability, length, and toughness they would like to be able to put him on the other teams best player and have Dale take him out of the game.  

I think Callahan has the best chance right now to be our deep threat.  And it looks like from Thursday night that Cadwell is finding his shot again.  I would still like to see us bring in a bomber that can shoot the lights out.  It was amazing last year what Heien did for the team as a walk on.  Just having him on the floor really opened up things for a lot of other people.  I thought maybe Louis Krogman was this kid in the future, but it sounds like the coaches have cooled on him.  Maybe they have their eye on somebody else, or don't think it is as important to the development of the team.  The three point shot is just so important in college bball these days, and the last few years it seems we don't make as many and give up way more than our opponents.