Oakland

[jackmd]

Re: Oakland

Thats why the officials get the whistles. I agree with most of the analysis from others here. Ideally we'd play with full intensity all the time but almost no player/team can do that. I get the feeling our guys are trying not to lose when they have a lead instead of playing for the win. I know that is a cliche but I sense a feeling of anxiety from our team as the clock starts to wind down in the second half. Maybe its just my anxiety. I do know these close games are killing my 6 year old. We'll be there Saturday looking for a sweep of IPFW.

[jackmd]

Re: Oakland

I can't wait for the "reel" truth from JJ. I think the officials blew another one but I could be wrong. I've seen a lot of goaltends and had a few called against me and I don't think that was a goaltend. I think that ball was clearly outside of the cylinder.

Foot in mouth for me. Ball appears to be in the cylinder. Probably good that I gave up on my officiating career right after college.

[filbert]

Re: Oakland

I'm very heartened overall. I was a bit worried early in the game but our guys came back and showed that they have the talent to stay with an upper-division Summit League team.

Now, they just need some more experience under their belts. Experience can sometimes be painful to gain, but this team will be much, much better by the end of this year, and next year will be a threat to finish in the top half of the league.

The guys need to hold their heads up high--they're making progress, and are getting better. If they keep together and keep their minds right, they'll be winning their fair share of games the rest of this year.

All along I've been thinking that the goal this year is to get ready for next year, when they'll have a shot at getting to the NCAA tournament (on a semi-home court of Sioux Falls, keep in mind!)

Right now, our kids need the experiences they're having especially at the end of games, maybe even more than they need wins. They're learning how to win.

[91jack]

Re: Oakland

That was a great game. I think if they play with that intensity the fans will be back. It gets tough for some people to go to the games when you get blownout and it costs $40 or so a night. Put a good product like that out there and it'll be MORE worth it.
I don't blame the game on the officials. It's too bad we didn't take the ball to the hole more because it seemed like a block was called 90% of the time. Oakland did that the whole game and got us in foul trouble.
I think it was just a tough night for Ben shooting wise. He had several jumpers that he normally makes. A few of them were down and came back out.
Play like that more often and you'll get more win and fans. That game was like the Minnesota game for me. We played a good team and lost but played well enough to beat most of the teams on our schedule.

[Nidaros]

Re: Oakland

Oakland defeated E. Michigan by at least 15 and lost by only 4 to MSU.

I stand to be corrected. Per the game program you are correct. I thought their record was better than seven loses.

[Nidaros]

Re: Oakland

That was a great game. I think if they play with that intensity the fans will be back. It gets tough for some people to go to the games when you get blownout and it costs $40 or so a night. Put a good product like that out there and it'll be MORE worth it.
I don't blame the game on the officials. It's too bad we didn't take the ball to the hole more because it seemed like a block was called 90% of the time. Oakland did that the whole game and got us in foul trouble.
I think it was just a tough night for Ben shooting wise. He had several jumpers that he normally makes. A few of them were down and came back out.
Play like that more often and you'll get more win and fans. That game was like the Minnesota game for me. We played a good team and lost but played well enough to beat most of the teams on our schedule.

I think we will get to know these officals in games to come as according to TV story today in the Argus, the one ref is one of the better refs in the Summit per the Oakland coach and he stated that the ref did not make the goal tending call to please him. Also we do need to learn how to win the close ones.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Oakland

I'm not one to be overly optimistic about anything. Would you rather have the SDSU basketball team be like the NDSU football team, senior rich and peaking a year before eligibility, or have them win ten games this year with a clear path to great improvement next year? As long as they keep and expand their fan base, I think things are improving at about the right rate. I remember Nagy being quoted last year as saying his best NCC teams could win about 17 games against last year's schedule. Certainly next year's team should be at least that good.

[FargoBison]

Re: Oakland

I'm not one to be overly optimistic about anything. Would you rather have the SDSU basketball team be like the NDSU football team, senior rich and peaking a year before eligibility, or have them win ten games this year with a clear path to great improvement next year? As long as they keep and expand their fan base, I think things are improving at about the right rate. I remember Nagy being quoted last year as saying his best NCC teams could win about 17 games against last year's schedule. Certainly next year's team should be at least that good.

NDSU only had 11 seniors last year, hardly senior rich. 15/21 starters return.

[filbert]

Re: Oakland

It was not goaltending.

Here's the NCAA rule:

Art. 1. Goaltending shall have occurred when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try and each of the following conditions is met:

a. The ball is in its downward flight; and
b. The entire ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder.

(emphasis added)

Note that the rule plainly does NOT say that you can't touch the ball when it's in the imaginary cylinder above the rim. It says that you can't touch a ball that's got a possibility of going through the basket.

As you can plainly see in the still shot posted up-thread, the ball, being beside the hoop at the time of contact by Kai, pretty obviously does not have a possibility, while in flight, of entering the cylinder. It's quite apparently to one side of the basket.

As a bonus, it's arguable from the screen shot that the entire ball is not above the level of the ring. The angle is bad to see if the ball is touching the ring, but that doesn't matter, all three of those conditions need to exist in order for it to be goaltending, and that ball is quite obviously not going through the orange ring.

Not goaltending. Bad call by the ref.

Doesn't matter, we lost the game. Bring on IPFW!

[jackrabit1]

Re: Oakland

I actually had the chance to meet Coach Nagy tonight in Madison. He watched the Madison-Lennox game from my press box, while my color guy and I called the game. Super nice guy and I think he enjoyed a good game, to boot!

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Oakland

It was not goaltending.

Here's the NCAA rule:

(emphasis added)

Note that the rule plainly does NOT say that you can't touch the ball when it's in the imaginary cylinder above the rim. It says that you can't touch a ball that's got a possibility of going through the basket.

As you can plainly see in the still shot posted up-thread, the ball, being beside the hoop at the time of contact by Kai, pretty obviously does not have a possibility, while in flight, of entering the cylinder. It's quite apparently to one side of the basket.

As a bonus, it's arguable from the screen shot that the entire ball is not above the level of the ring. The angle is bad to see if the ball is touching the ring, but that doesn't matter, all three of those conditions need to exist in order for it to be goaltending, and that ball is quite obviously not going through the orange ring.

Not goaltending. Bad call by the ref.

Doesn't matter, we lost the game. Bring on IPFW!

Thanks for the rule search Filbert. The other important part here is that the ball was fired from the righthand corner, hit the right side of the rim and bounced over the basket to the other side. There is no way that it had a possibility of going in the cylinder when Kai's hand touched the ball as he tried to rebound the shot. You're right...no use crying over spilled milk, but still ticks me off that any referee would make that call with 15 seconds left and the call would have been 50-50 at best!

[JimmyJack]

Re: Oakland

Filbert has cracked the case. But what a poorly written rule. Read it carefully:

Art. 1. Goaltending shall have occurred when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try and each of the following conditions is met:

a. The ball is in its downward flight; and
b. The entire ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder.

But what's the "and is not touching the cylinder" part mean? There are three conditions in those two criteria. If each of those conditions must be met, that would mean it is goaltending if:

1. The ball is moving down.
2. The ball is above the rim and could go in.
3. The ball is NOT inside or in contact with the cylinder.

Number three makes no sense. I see what they're trying to say (that you can't swat away a shot that hasn't hit the rim yet), but the NCAA needs an editor here.

At any rate, the official who made the bad call was trailing the play and should have seen that the ball was caroming away from the basket. The ball was likely still in contact with the imaginary cylinder, but by the rule Filbert cited, the play didn't meet the criteria for goaltending.

I guess my other concern about the officiating (which was generally good, I think) was the lack of tolerance for any contact inside. Oakland was flopping all over the place, and they got the calls. No doubt their experience with Summit League officiating was how they knew they'd get those calls.

[jackmd]

Re: Oakland

One final point and then I'm over it. No way that call should have been made. I've never seen a game that close to the end decided by a goaltend call much less an improper one. That ball wasn't going in and the official should have been able to see that. Did we lose the game because of that call? Hard to say for sure. Agreed, on to IPFW.

[bballfan54]

Re: Oakland

The ref who called the foul was not in "THE AREA" of the net.. this is something we see a lot in Canada, that being said the game should not have come down to the last call....